by 'devastating ' my DM?

[RapunzelsRealMom]

A little bit of background:
DM has helped with some childcare over the years. This has been a help, to a degree, but often more of a hindrance re her overstepping boundaries. The main reason she did it was for ‘alone time’ with DCs.

About a year ago she was diagnosed with cancer. Thank goodness she is now well and has finished her treatment. Her day to day life is back to normal (more or less) but she’s still not quite ‘herself’. By this, I mean that she’s not as aware of things, she’s talked to me about chemo brain, asked if side effects to her drugs included confusion. She walked out onto the road the other day with DC (age5) when I told her a van was coming. There’s more but that’s the gist.

So she asked me if she can go back to looking after the kids. DH and I have talked and talked about this! We are both in agreement, for the reasons above plus others, that this can’t happen.

I practiced what to say and how to say it in as kind a way as possible, and then put it away to the back of my head, dreading the day we’d have to talk about it.

Basically, she is devastated. She categorically denied everything I said, claimed that I was entirely wrong on every example i gave. It was excruciating. She is devastated and it's my fault, as you can imagine (not DH, of course, it's all me).

I thought she’s understand once she’d had a chance to think about it but, the following day, I took a Father’s Day gift round for DSF and it was awful! He didn’t speak to me, apart from saying thank you. She couldn’t even look at me. The atmosphere was dreadful and helped only by the fact other visitors were there,

How am I supposed to deal with this? I’m a good mum and try to be a good daughter but it seems, on this occasion, I’m apparently being a shitty daughter by being a good mum.

She is not used to people saying no to her and I think this, plus the aftermath of cancer is making this very difficult. Going by past issues, I foresee that she’ll NEVER get over this.

What do I do?

Enough is enough. Do not let her do this to you, or your family, anymore. Block her on dd's phone. Give her space, I'd actually be tempted to go full nc.

I agree with heartsease68's post.

I recognise this dynamic OP. It is a TOTAL 'snap'.

My mother is very nice does love me, but her parenting is flawed, deeply flawed. She doesn't UNDERSTAND that her way is not the best way and that failure to comply with her opinion isn't awkwardness, disobedience, madness, rudeness............. have lived with this my whole life and I was a tragic people pleaser until recently.

I like the saying ''you don't have to turn up to every argument you're invited to''.

I used to do that. I see now. My mother did not allow me to have a response to her crappy behaviour. So I would defend my right to have a hurt reaction to something she'd said or done and she'd argue me in to the ground and it was only EVER resolved when I said sorry.

No more. I feel more disconnected from her opinion of me now.

After you've ''sat it out'' a few times and not caved, it gets easier. You aren't sitting there anxiously aware that she's thinking your insane, a brat, ungrateful, awkward, spiky, sensitive, dramatic, or any of the other adjectives that have been applied to me when I had a reasonable reaction to the crappy insensitive way she interacted with me.

She treats her friends like autonomous individuals but not me.

Well she cannot do that anymore.

You can go NC for 6 or 7 weeks to give them a taste of what it would be like. I have done that. I hope it never becomes necessary to cut her out totally but I think her default behaviour is that she is the one who controls me and she needs to be reminded that I have the power to walk away from her.

Obviously she'd never respect that that decision had been made on the basis of her lack of respect for me but she would see that I can choose not to interact with her.

Oh op. How awful. I don’t say this lightly but I think you have to go nc.

She is deliberately upsetting your child and manipulating her as part of her games. I have zero tolerance of any adult playing mind games with kids. It’s fucking outrageous. For this alone she’d be out.

You sound lovely and I appreciate this seems a big step but look at what she’s done to you. You’re having counselling. It’s eating you up. This isn’t healthy or right.

I hate seeing this threads about abusive parents. I just wish I could make you see how it’s not normal and what it should be. (I’m not saying my parents are perfect by any means!! But I know they love me and have my best interests at heart)

I really appreciate all the responses, comments and insights. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my posts.

I can't reply to all, but to respond to a theme:
Yes, she has always been like this. She said to me the other day, but we've had a great relationship and I said (quite unplanned), Yes, as long as i behave myself. She scoffed at this but it's absolutely true. I think it's really only dawning on me now (and I'm no spring chicken )!!

A lot of memories have reared their ugly heads - I hope you won't all think I'm drip-feeding as none of this seemed relevant in earlier posts. She and my father had a violent relationship which I witnessed from a very young age and, when he left, she was violent towards me (grabbing me by the hair) - this was from age 19 to 21 approx, until I responded by grabbing her hair and not letting go till she let go of mine. I'm not proud of this but I swear it was in my own defence. She soon stopped doing this.

There have been many viciously worded battles over the years when I have not 'towed the line', but, in between times, she has convinced me that we have such a close relationship. She can be lovely, the DCs love her. She is generous financially, which makes me uncomfortable, but I always took this as her way of making things up to me. You know?

She would be distraught to be accused of the things in this thread, however, I know much of them are absolutely true.

I am now middle-aged, a people-pleaser, anxiety ridden, with low self esteem, despite an amazing husband, family and good job. I feel like I'm constantly looking for approval and I now believe this has her (and my emotionally abusive father, now dead) at its root.

I'm not sure what response I expect from this post. You have all been fantastic in your support here. I'm just posting this to let you know that your support has meant something and has helped me see more clearly.

I still don't know how the hell this will be fixed, or if I want it to be fixed. I know I can't live with the guilt of going NC. I'm going to read the stately homes thread and the Toxic Parents book that some of you have recommended.

Thank you

You will need counselling to form an identity of yourself as a 'good enough', worthwhile person regardless of what your mum thinks of you, OP.

She’s not devastated and you haven’t devastated her, she’s just acting out because she’s not getting her own way. There’s no way you can go back to putting and shutting up without endangering your child’s safety, as difficult as this is, it does come down to prioritising your child’s safety over placating an emotionally manipulative woman.

Maybe it’s time to take this opportunity to excise your past and current demons. You are not a bad daughter, you’re just a browbeaten one.

I think the way to fix this is to get counseling/read books etc. and get help for yourself. It isn´t to give to your mother. You can't give in to her as that would place her feelings over the safety and happiness of your children. So the only fix is to stop feeling bad about not putting her first, and that solution is not found in her but in yourself (with the help that counseling can give).

Please please don’t feel guilt. If you DO go NC it won’t be without reason. You shouldn’t feel guilty for protecting yourself and your family

she is like my mum.

And it's so hard to get through, impossible, because my mum's perception of herself is that she's lovely and that I'm spiky, sensitive, dramatic.............

All I can do at this point is withdraw for weeks until I want to kill her less.

You mentioned the fact taht your mum wouldn't like you to have therapy. Don't tell her! I had therapy years ago and my mum wanted me to tell her what I talked about at therapy. Geeez! and when I erected a boundary and said 'mum!' she did this 'oh excuse me, get you! wanting to be priiiiiivate'' face and I felt like a snowflake

Pooka I know exactly what you mean. She ridicules me when I say something she doesn't like. She did that to DD when she hesitated about going out to the car- for goodness sake DGD, I'm not going to run away with you!! I'm so annoyed at myself for not accompanying her

I think we have the same mum P00ka!

I also had counselling without telling my mum, because I couldn't face her reaction to it.

Ha! My mother used to say "If you have therapy, don't blame me!". I think it was a preemptive strike...guess what? I did, and I did!

The most important thing I learned is that you can't change someone else, you can only change your reaction to them. That's why grey rock is helpful, it gives them nothing to work with.

Rapunzel I can feel the butterflies. Your head and memory tell you one thing and then all the BUTs fly in.

You have listed so many types of abuse from your mother to yourself and to your DCs and then you still can’t quite believe how bad this is.

I’ve seen this response myself in my own family. The disbelief in your own knowledge. The constant attempt to make things right. The blaming yourself for trying to keep safe. The reasonableness beyond the edge of reason.

You would really benefit from some counselling to start to put together your memories of the past, your experiences now, and a new feeling of self. Sending you a big hand hold. It won’t be instant but it will be worth it.

How are you OP?

Thanks for asking Atrocious

Pretty crap to be honest. I've had another couple of counselling sessions and I'm reading Toxic Parents but we've had no more contact. The ball is in my court as I told her that I wanted the space that I'd allowed her.

I need to work on not feeling guilty any more and managing my responses to her behaviour. It's not easy.

I really don't know how to proceed. I can't see our next meeting being any more successful that all the others from the last 7 (I think) weeks. And I'm really not coping well with the aftermath of such conflict. There hasn't been a time during these weeks that I haven't felt a knot of anxiety in my stomach and I just need it to go, not get worse.

Thanks again

Hey Rapunzel

Sorry that it’s still so hard. I guess it will take time - after all it’s a whole lifetime of you being trained to accept her crap. It will take time to reframe this. But it’s amazing you’re doing it and it’s so important you continue.

I’m in therapy and it’s been incredible in helping me reframe my relationship with my parents and begin to change the patterns of behaviour and expectation.

Hang in there

I feel so much anxiety inside. I can barely sleep, my heart rate is sky high.

Oh love. I know how horrible that is.

Sometimes, for some people, a mantra can help you talk yourself through the worst of it. I can lend you an old one of mine.

Children's needs before adult wants. Always. Every time. No Exceptions. Regardless of fallout.

That is what being a good parent is founded on. You are a good parent because you have picked your children's needs over your mum's wants, despite the cost to yourself.

Sometimes the parent doesn't come around, they get stuck in a power struggle of their own design. Which can be painful when you are on the wrong end of it. But there is a silver lining. The old habit of being at the ready to leap on command, into the role demanded of you, and all the associated stress and emotional damage connected to that ..... disappears.

There is an upside to not having the constant insecurity of people you have no control over lugging fire crackers and life bombs at you. It might be tinged with sadness, and even some grief for what the relationship should have been, but there is a certain calm that comes with removing yourself from their firing range. A calm you might never have enjoyed before.

I'm so sorry. It's a club where the existing members would be so pleased if nobody else ever had to join. ((big fat hug))

Thank you both. Your words of support do help

Going through counselling is bloody tough - a lot harder than many people realise.

But it will help in the long term. You’re in for a stormy few weeks whilst you learn to adjust to your altered reality, but I promise it WILL get better

Rapunzel I'm afraid I can't offer any more advice than what has been said but I just wanted to say that as an only child with a father extremely similar to your mother I can appreciate exactly how you feel. In particular the following:

There have been many viciously worded battles over the years when I have not 'towed the line', but, in between times, she has convinced me that we have such a close relationship. She can be lovely, the DCs love her. She is generous financially, which makes me uncomfortable, but I always took this as her way of making things up to me.

Its very disconcerting when the behaviour veers between hugely unreasonable and selfish and then very caring and loving, it is hard to reconcile the two and remember just how awful the behaviour is when they are being so lovely. It also makes it harder to step away and stand your ground because when they behave well again, you're thrown off.

I am now middle-aged, a people-pleaser, anxiety ridden, with low self esteem, despite an amazing husband, family and good job. I feel like I'm constantly looking for approval and I now believe this has her (and my emotionally abusive father, now dead) at its root.

I cannot agree more with your insight and I think you're absolutely right. I am very similar, and I put it mainly down to my dad. The only advice I can offer and although I haven't read all the replies i'm sure it's been mentioned, you can only change your responses to the behaviour, you cannot change the behaviour itself. My dad frequently tells me he's too old to change now, so inevitably I have to change or face a constant knot in my stomach every time i see or speak to him.

Counselling helped me talk things through and recognise this although i'm still not good at putting it into practice and just completely go to pot when any confrontation arises with my dad.

Stay strong, you have done NOTHING wrong here, you are protecting your children and that is the bottom line. The behaviour exhibited since you stood your ground shows you that you were right all along. This is not a reasonable person, this is someone throwing their toys out of their pram because they haven't got their own way. She is more concerned with her own selfish ways than thinking about her grandchildren. Sorry you're going through this but you are doing so well, no matter how awful it feels, your children MUST come first.

Exercise can help with that feeling sometimes. Can you set some time aside for something like running or swimming?

Sheflies I'm sorry you have gone through something similar. So many of us have. It's difficult to explain it to people with 'normal' parents, especially when they say things like ignore her, let her stew, why do you care, etc. I don't know, why do I bloody care?!?!

Thanks all

And yes, I will try exercise- I should be doing that anyway but especially now

Just read the whole thread. OP hope you get on well with your counselling. For me I’d focus on how terrible you’d feel if something happened to your children in her care that you are currently preventing. Eg another van incident. So really you’re a superstar and should not feel guilty. I don’t think I’ve expressed myself very well but hope you get the idea. Flowers for you

Progress!

So, after work today I texted to ask her to meet me for coffee. She started the same way she has done this whole time - I don't understand, you haven't told me why, etc.

I didn't get into it. I refused to discuss it but only wanted to discuss how we could move forward, given that DH and I won't change our minds. I said that we had to agree to disagree and move on. There was a LOT of protesting from her, but I let her speak, took a breath and responded quietly and calmly, not giving in. She started getting angry at point s but I didn't rise to it and kept restating my position.

She eventually accepted that this is how the conversation would continue and we parted on 'reasonable' terms, ie, she wasn't happy but I told her that I love her and want to move forward from this.

There were a couple of times I went 'off script', like when I said I don't feel she respects me as an adult and she kind of chuckled and shook her head and said "of course I don't". Normally I'd have got angry at something like that. She really is so deluded that she thinks this (and many other things) is acceptable!! I told her she seems to think that I'm an extension of her and therefore should do exactly as she wants - she said she does think that a bit!!!!

When I told her I loved her as we parted she said " I love you too, just too much obviously"

So, not quite finished - I still expect more fighting from her - but a step in the right direction I think.

I couldn't have got here without this thread. I really mean that. Thanks