by 'devastating ' my DM?

[RapunzelsRealMom]

A little bit of background:
DM has helped with some childcare over the years. This has been a help, to a degree, but often more of a hindrance re her overstepping boundaries. The main reason she did it was for ‘alone time’ with DCs.

About a year ago she was diagnosed with cancer. Thank goodness she is now well and has finished her treatment. Her day to day life is back to normal (more or less) but she’s still not quite ‘herself’. By this, I mean that she’s not as aware of things, she’s talked to me about chemo brain, asked if side effects to her drugs included confusion. She walked out onto the road the other day with DC (age5) when I told her a van was coming. There’s more but that’s the gist.

So she asked me if she can go back to looking after the kids. DH and I have talked and talked about this! We are both in agreement, for the reasons above plus others, that this can’t happen.

I practiced what to say and how to say it in as kind a way as possible, and then put it away to the back of my head, dreading the day we’d have to talk about it.

Basically, she is devastated. She categorically denied everything I said, claimed that I was entirely wrong on every example i gave. It was excruciating. She is devastated and it's my fault, as you can imagine (not DH, of course, it's all me).

I thought she’s understand once she’d had a chance to think about it but, the following day, I took a Father’s Day gift round for DSF and it was awful! He didn’t speak to me, apart from saying thank you. She couldn’t even look at me. The atmosphere was dreadful and helped only by the fact other visitors were there,

How am I supposed to deal with this? I’m a good mum and try to be a good daughter but it seems, on this occasion, I’m apparently being a shitty daughter by being a good mum.

She is not used to people saying no to her and I think this, plus the aftermath of cancer is making this very difficult. Going by past issues, I foresee that she’ll NEVER get over this.

What do I do?

Don't engage any more with her. Just stop every conversation on it by saying "the matter is closed" or "we covered that already". She sounds like she is being a total nightmare. Also, you can hand her over to your DH a little more.

Just rtft.
Honestly, I don't think thete is anything you can or need to do.

Whatever the dynamic is in your relationship, she has somehow tried to make this all about you and what you need to do to make it better.

You can't make her want to accepts this unfortunately.

I don't think you need to (at this stage) go no contact, but I think you need to try really hard to let her make the next move.

I also agree that counselling, just for you could really help unpick how she makes you feel responsible for everything and give you tools to not let her have so much of your mental energy.
It sounds exhausting

Sorry you're having to deal with this OP, but please keep telling yourself you've done the right thing. Your children come first. I expect it's hard for her to accept she is not the person she once was and that things have changed. If you've made it clear that she will still be very involved in your DCs lives, but just not responsible for childcare, there is nothing else you can say.

I would take a step back, as it sounds like she is the type of person that will keep picking at the scab, never letting the matter drop. Stand firm and say if she is going to keep being abusive to you, it's best you don't see each other for a while. Like someone else has said, just say "we've already gone over the reasons why." Don't let her draw you into further argument and don't go back on your decision. I know it must be upsetting for you, but for once you are in control and you have to show her that what you (and DH) say goes.

You don't have to turn up to every argument you are invited to

I like that, thank you.

I've actually decided to pursue the idea of counselling. I need to stop responding to this the way that I do. It's easy to say but much harder to do.

Thanks all for your input

Op, this sounds so hard.
You do have to remember that the problem lies with her, she will not have her will thwarted, and lashes out from that place.
It’s not your business to placate her.
It’s not your business to do her bidding.

You have a cast iron reason for refusing her, and you are breaking a very toxic pattern of behaviour, which ultimately will be very liberating for you, and even for her if she manages to let a little bit of truth in.
Manipulative people often make it unspeakably wrong to cross them in any way. As she has conditioned you from day one, this will run DEEP with you( and of course she is many things other than manipulative, but this is her power place).
Remember to ground yourself in the knowledge that you are a good mum and a good person. Don’t think about how it will pan out, or how your wider family will work in the future, because fear will make you backslide.
Just stay with your truth, and know that you are acting with integrity

Sorry this is so long. I have some experience with manipulative mothers and wanted to reach out.

Nothing new to add, just a spot of empathy from me. My Mum had similar health problems, but was willing to work with us to have contact with DD but safely.
My Dad on the other hand (divorced and remarried) is a deeply manipulative and selfish person, it's impossible to reason with him because he is unable to see anyone else's perspective - like your Mum.
It is hard.

Don’t back down, she’s hedging her bets that you will by using emotional guilt tripping etc. Just don’t call her etc, she’s using this to make you feel bad, about decision that as an adult/parent is your right.

Really do consider CBT/counselling. it helped me tremendously with understanding and then applying the tools l learnt in dealing with my own difficult mother.

I'll add one of my other favourite sayings, the past is a marker post not a hitching post - you can move on!

Good luck with the counselling. There isn't really anything for your mother to accept though (she said she wasn't going to accept it) because it's your decision and it's made. Her input is not required. You're the parent in this situation and you have the control!

Ohyesiam Thank you so much for that

Espresso wickedly tempting 😂

No problem op. Pm me if you need to x

I think I'm looking for some kind words of wisdom again. So many of your comments have helped me in this situation, but it seems to be getting worse and I have no idea what to do.

Last contact with -D-M was by phone two weeks ago. She told me she couldn't bear to look at me for what I'd done and needed some space. I have heard nothing since.

This is the woman who calls me to tell me how depressed she is when she hasn't seen me or the kids for 4 or 5 days. Claims she can't bear to be separated from us, she even makes me feel guilty for going on holiday and not inviting her.

How can it be that her hurt feelings are more important than seeing her grandchildren? They miss her too and the little ones are asking when is she coming, when will they see her. I keep telling them she is busy because I don't know what else to say to 5 year olds.

I feel so much anxiety inside. I can barely sleep, my heart rate is sky high.

I can't contact her as she's so disgusted with me and needs to be away from me, but I can't believe that she'd stay away from us for this long.

What the hell am I to do?

Through my work we get access to counselling and I had a session last week (I can get up to 5). Talking it through was good but I don't feel any different now. I need someone to flick a switch and make me not care. I'm desperately trying to do that myself. What is wrong with me that I can't?

I feel emotionally battered because of something that I did not cause. I did not cause the passage of time, or her chemo brain (or whatever this is), I did not cause her to walk out in front of a van with my child, or crash her car and claim zero fault - oh god, I could go on....

This is not my fault but I'm being horribly punished for it anyway

I would hazard a guess that she knows EXACTLY what she is doing to you, and that is WHY she is doing it.

Think of this time as a time away from the relationship which will enable you to strengthen yourself and your ability to lay firm boundaries. It's not forever, it's just indefinite.

With regards to what she is saying, would it help to think that she has been cognitively much more affected than anyone has realised? Her behaviour is completely irrational at the moment. There must be a reason for this - either total selfishness, unwise backup/support (maybe her cancer support group are all suggesting ways of handling this, maybe she's on Gransnet??) OR she is actually cognitively impaired.

With regards to your feelings - you have absolutely nothing to reproach yourself with. The adrenaline of being attacked like this needs sorting out. I would recommend quite intense exercise - I find spinning, rowing, weights circuits all helped me immensely when dh had just died and I literally felt high and sick with adrenaline. Massage was also great but sadly more expensive than exercise ;)

Don't give in to her OP. Your reasons for taking the decision that you have are valid.

She is experienced at manipulating you, and I'm guessing this is the first time that you haven't rolled over to her demands. She is relying on your discomfort at the current situation.

I would maintain the olive branch offering by texting her once or twice a week suggesting times that they could spend time with you as a family, but if she brings up spending time with the kids alone, stick to 'we have discussed this and I'm not going over it again'.

Whatever the reason behind it, she is being very selfish and only thinking of herself and not her grandchildren - which, unfortunately, is exactly why you didn't want her to have them alone in the first place.

Tbh, I'm not sure why this is causing so much anxiety in you OP. It's going to be ideal if your mother starts whining about not going on holiday/visiting/whatever because you'll be pointing out that she didn't want to know for x weeks so you are sure she can cope

Stay strong!

I think that if your Mum isn't improving, she should see her GP.

Would she accept your help to access support? All you can do is keep explaining the valid reasons for your decision and ask her if she wants help to possibly overcome them.

Have you heard the expression "extinction burst"? With a tantrumming child, who has got results previously by throwing a strop, the reaction to being brought back into line is to try harder.......the fact that she is escalating, however exhausting, may be desperation that the tried and trusted tactics are failing, and she's almost ready to capitulate....... a plus for you in the long run, but so draining while you're in the thick of it!
It may be a way of avoiding the bitter realisation that her terrible illness has had lasting effects. (As I get older, I have to accept that my brain makes appointments that my body can't keep sometimes)
It is also possible, as previous posters have mentioned, that there has been more lasting damage than passing "chemo brain". You have the offer of counselling, DP is onside, you know that you're being perfectly rational; in Churchill's words, "keep b***ing on"!

It sounds like the cognitive damage is worse than you first thought - it sounds like she’s completely unable to retain or weigh information. That would explain the repeated discussions (she literally can’t understand your concerns). It would probably also explain the risky behaviours in the first place (genuinely can’t see the dangers).

We see this a lot with discharge planning for older patients. They can’t see that if they can’t walk they can’t go home without care.

When you ask them how they think they will cope without care, they know they don’t have an answer to that but don’t understand why there’s this cognitive gap, and so think you are tricking them somehow. They often get very angry. It’s very difficult. People have also posted similar stories about taking keys off elderly parents, and the anger generated there because the parent can’t see why they can’t drive anymore.

You don’t mention your Mum being an irrational angry cow in the past, so it’s more than likely the dementia doing this and not “her”. Sorry you’re going through this - try not to take it personally

So, things have escalated quite considerably. Every time I think it can’t get any worse, it does. It’s almost comical now if it wasn’t so upsetting.

I finally gave in and broke her self imposed exile but only because she texted DD, 13, about her birthday and told her she’s not allowed to take her out anymore but hopes she’ll see her soon.

If the situation wasn’t quite so dire, I’d have called her out for that. She shouldn’t be putting DD in that position. Instead I texted to ask if DH and I could go and see her to try to sort something out.

When we got there, she was calm, as we’re DH and I, however, DSD went mental shouting at us that I’d purposely picked the worst time I could to kick her when she was down. As you can imagine it degenerated and we left within about 10 minutes of arriving. We did, however, agree with DM at the door that she’d come to see the kids on Friday.

She came and we struggled with small talk, then she disappeared into another room for half an hour to sit with DCs (???).
I followed her into the hall at one point as I needed to return a gift of cash that DSD had given us and we felt unable to keep (we had both been incredibly uncomfortable with this gift but he put it to me in such a way that I couldn’t refuse, would cause great offence, etc - I know this sounds ungrateful but it felt very controlling at the time).

This kicked off another argument, she claimed AGAIN than we had never given her a reason for this decision, made me go through it over and over again, I called her out on being controlling and interfering, she told me that returning the cash would upset DSD and I said I didn’t care because he’d upset me. It descended into her telling me to fuck off and she left.

As she was at the door, she called DD (13 - same one) to come out for her to show her something at her car and she (DD) returned in tears as gran had been ‘saying’ things to try to get her on her side. I am beyond furious!

She has form for saying something mean and nasty then being horrified and playing the victim when I respond in kind. Up to recently, I’ve been calm and indulgent, but no more! I was giving as good as I got and she couldn’t handle that.

I have no idea how we’ll ever get over this.

Weird inappropriate inverted commas above

Id go nc from now on. You dont need that shite in your life

No real advice beyond what you probably already know. It's not you, it's her. Or more accurately her and your SD.

Counselling is a good idea, it may take a couple of sessions to see the benefits. I'd also try to explain to the children that DG isn't well in age appropriate terms. Keep them in whatever childcare you put in place when DM had cancer.

Do you have siblings? I suspect not from your posts. If you do could they mediate this latest escalation? I'm in a similar position and it's one of the very few times I hate being an only.

I'd leave it for a few weeks, then ask to meet with her. If that goes well, maybe arrange a family event for you all - so no sitting in the room on her own with the kids at the moment. Then build from there, but only if it's going well.

Yes, I'm an only child

God that sounds awful op. Hang in there. She's annoyed that you're telling her no and she can jolly well get over it. My MIL is similar (also a story involving cancer and much drama). She came round eventually, after a couple of months of us doing our thing and having a "we're here when you're ready to accept what we're offering" sort of attitude. Hope the same sort of thing works for you.