by 'devastating ' my DM?

[RapunzelsRealMom]

A little bit of background:
DM has helped with some childcare over the years. This has been a help, to a degree, but often more of a hindrance re her overstepping boundaries. The main reason she did it was for ‘alone time’ with DCs.

About a year ago she was diagnosed with cancer. Thank goodness she is now well and has finished her treatment. Her day to day life is back to normal (more or less) but she’s still not quite ‘herself’. By this, I mean that she’s not as aware of things, she’s talked to me about chemo brain, asked if side effects to her drugs included confusion. She walked out onto the road the other day with DC (age5) when I told her a van was coming. There’s more but that’s the gist.

So she asked me if she can go back to looking after the kids. DH and I have talked and talked about this! We are both in agreement, for the reasons above plus others, that this can’t happen.

I practiced what to say and how to say it in as kind a way as possible, and then put it away to the back of my head, dreading the day we’d have to talk about it.

Basically, she is devastated. She categorically denied everything I said, claimed that I was entirely wrong on every example i gave. It was excruciating. She is devastated and it's my fault, as you can imagine (not DH, of course, it's all me).

I thought she’s understand once she’d had a chance to think about it but, the following day, I took a Father’s Day gift round for DSF and it was awful! He didn’t speak to me, apart from saying thank you. She couldn’t even look at me. The atmosphere was dreadful and helped only by the fact other visitors were there,

How am I supposed to deal with this? I’m a good mum and try to be a good daughter but it seems, on this occasion, I’m apparently being a shitty daughter by being a good mum.

She is not used to people saying no to her and I think this, plus the aftermath of cancer is making this very difficult. Going by past issues, I foresee that she’ll NEVER get over this.

What do I do?

You can't control your mum, you can only control how you react to her.
You need to stop focusing on what you can do to change her behaviour and think about what you can do to change your own behaviour.
It won't be easy, but it is the only way to name this long term.

Manage not name!

I’m going to be radical and say stay nc and see how long it takes for her to contact you. Ultimately, she has way more to lose than you. She’s being controlling and manipulative. And a massive bitch.

Maelstrop that's kind of what I've been thinking but I'm not sure if I'm being a complete cow

Thanks all for your thoughts

made me go through it over and over again

OP, don't do this - your mother is never going to agree with you and it is just keeping the argument going. Don't explain, don't get drawn in.

God, I feel for you OP. I didn't see this thread when it started and reading the escalation is excrutiating.

Either you mum is reaching into her existing controlling/self-centered nature or the chemo has deeply affected her judgement. Either way she shouldn't be left alone with small children.

Your step father is taking her side because if he accepts you are right he has to face the fact that his wife has suffered a diminution in capacity and/or is controlling and abusive - so he doesn't.

I think you should just stop trying to fix this - you really can't. Go to counselling for yourself and then be low contact. If she doesn't call you - then her loss.

I would also suggest switching off all responsibility for the refusal to let her alone with small children to your husband. When she kicks off about it, let him answer her.

She has form for saying something mean and nasty then being horrified and playing the victim when I respond in kind. Up to recently, I’ve been calm and indulgent, but no more! I was giving as good as I got and she couldn’t handle that.

I have a close relative very similar. The one time (it was to do with my children too) when I stood up and gave as good as I got - after years of taking it and the half-apologies (bet you got "I m sorry I did/said xyz but I wouldn't have only I am so upset you did ....) she went nuclear and cut me off. I tried to reason but in the end just accepted it.

Eventually she came back - I left the door open - but there is no more of the mean and nasty shit because she knows I just won't tolerate it anymore. I'm sorry I tolerated it for so long.

Definitely think cognitive difficulties are present here & her DH might be in total denial about them. My MiL is having difficulties & it was like smoke & mirrors for ages, as I seemed to be the only one who picked up on them.

Constant repetition of ideas/issues was the key indicator. She's worse now so others see it except really Fil.

Sadly, distance is the only way to look after your own mh. Be exceptionally kind to yourself. It would be really bad if your kids were harmed, so that must be your priority.

A very sad situation for you all but you are right to be concerned about your mum looking after your young children.

In your position I would make sure they see a lot of her and tell her you're looking forward to her taking care of them, alone, again when she is completely better. That will give her something to look forward to and show her how much she is valued.

she claimed AGAIN than we had never given her a reason for this decision, made me go through it over and over again

STOP playing this game!
Or at least say something like "Well if you keep forgetting our conversations then i can't risk leaving you alone with dc - imagine what else you'd forget!"

It sounds also that you're still very co-dependent with her, fretting because you've not seen/heard from her for a couple of weeks, breaking her self imposed silence of no contact/communication.

You need to leave her to it.
Stop backtracking on your boundaries.
It's going to take more than a few weeks/months for her to change the controlling and abusive habits of a lifetime.....and even then it's only if she wants to change.

Stop letting everything revolve around her, stop giving attention to her antics.

just be thre for you and your little ones now hun.before I was going to suggest wirting her a letter.telling her you love her and just want her and the kids to be safe so are thinking of both of you.becasue you love them.
but to me it crosses a certain line when adults use children agasint the others or try to manipulate them.they are so honest and vunerable to this and I hate it.
so as painful as it is I think you just need a break.
explain to the children that grannys been a bit off it at the moment so needs to try and get better.but as soon as she well enough youll all sort something to do together.maybe they could send her a card or a letter if THEY feel they are missing her and feel the need to keep in touch with grandma.
sounds like you might all just need to spread out and breathe.
maybe you could email or write and just explain.give her everything from your side.then its not weighing down on your shoulders.youve said your reasoning.you love her and shes your mum and that maybe she would like to get in touch when she feels able.
but this isn't on you.this isn't something you've done an the fact its hurting you so much shows how lovely and caring you are.
so please don't take this on and let it make you said and weighted with it.
you need to focus on what makes you feel good now.focus on doing lovely thing this weekend with the children.
and maybe also think of talking to your dd.after what happened and what was said to her she might be feeling really confused and conflicted and a bit shaky too.
this is being allowed to mess with your head and life way too much.you don't deserve that.
be kind to yourself

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've been through something similar with my own mother.
What helped? Time and space. After some time of no contact, I could actually untangle my own thoughts and emotions. I could see the manipulation myself. I wasn't so confused and scared to say the wrong thing. It was the most painful thing but very liberating. I agree with the pp who said the conditioningruns deep.

Doing that to your dd13 would be absolutely the last straw. She is actively trying to turn your child against you. She doesn't adore your dd, or she would never do that. Stop believing that lie, she adores the narcissistic supply your children provide, they're not people to her - they're props.

Sorry but your mum really is a complete cow. If she loved your dc that much, she wouldn’t be doing this. Stand your ground, go low contact and don’t feel bad. This is all on her, not you.

I'd cut her off for now and block her number from the kids phones

Yes to NC. If that feels drastic, write her a brief letter setting out your position and that she can contact you again when she feels able to accept the situation.

Could you write to her stating clearly and for final time the reasons if she keeps saying you haven't? Just in case she is having memory issues

But otherwise you're doing the right thing!!

Just read the whole thread, must have missed it first time round. You have to go no contact. Now she is attempting to manipulate your children you have no choice.

For what it’s worth, I would sit down with your 13yo and calmly explain the situation, she is old enough to be frank with and would probably appreciate not being kept in the dark. I’d block your DM from 13yos phone (better yet change her number if you can) and keep an eye out for any more contact.

I would also write a letter to your mum, maybe post and email, explaining in black and white exactly what you have done so many times, and adding her recent outrageous behaviour. Keep it factual and business like.

Then go NC. If your DM or anyone else brings it up again you can refer them to the email and say no more about it.

I’m so sorry this has happened to you, you don’t deserve it.

I too would suggest writing down your reasons, that way every time she asks you to go through them again you can refer her to what you've written. But don't send or give her the written reasons till she asks again. Her behaviour to your oldest child should be added to the list.

You also need to ensure she isn't left alone with your children again even for a few minutes, or she will keep trying to get them on her "side".

Was she like this before the cancer? Is the cancer an excuse for getting away with shitty behaviour? Sometimes it doesn't make people better people, it exacerbates their negative behaviours. My mother became more manipulative and attention-seeking. She became more spiteful and nasty at the end of her life, despite her cancer going to her brain and making her quite child-like at the same time - so while her behaviour was partly due to the tumour's effects on her brain - it seemed to remove her "filter" and showed her truer colours to more and more people. Perhaps because you have been the dutiful only child, you have had blinkers on to her more manipulative traits and are only just seeing how destructive her ways are now that they may affect your kids. Good luck, OP - we have your back!

Not sure if this has been said earlier but could the fact that she keeps asking for explanations and insisting you haven’t told her why you’ve come to this decision be an indicator of confusion / dementia rather than game-playing?

Perhaps if you end up back in contact and she brings it up again, you could say “Mum, this is an example of the confusion I’m talking about. I’ve explained it to you clearly several times already. Every time you bring it up again, it reconfirms that you’re not thinking clearly.”

At the least, it might get her to drop it as a tactic, if it is a tactic.

Seeing and speaking to your mum several times a week is a hell of a lot of contact and much more than most families do.
She's had you on a tight rein for your whole life. You're standing up to her finally because it's your children at risk (sure you wouldn't have done so for yourself).
You need to accept that this might permanently change your relationship with her and whilst as an outsider it's easy to say that would be a good thing, for you, it could be very painful.
But you can't go back to the status quo so you don't have much of a choice.

When my children try to reopen a discussion that's been settled (but not to their liking) I say once "asked and answered." If they keep trying I walk away.

It is hard enough with them, I doubt it would work with an adult who has never been refused before. I had a mother who was similar. When I wouldn't agree with her she would hang up on me midsentence. The only thing that helped was going LC and grey rock. Good luck.

rapunzel My DM has not spoken to me since November last year. Unfortunately she's only hurt herself and my DF. My DC have been fairly ok with it. As it was close to Christmas I realised I had to tell them something and decided that I wouldn't try to cover up for her. I told them that their GM wasn't being very nice and decided she'd rather keep saying not very nice things than talk with us. She now has very sporadic phone contact with them. Its just proven how little she actually cared, despite the performances. I have no clue what she's told other people, and I've realised I don't care - anyone who would not bother listening to me side isn't worth it either. It gets easier as time goes on.

I really doubt she has cognitive difficulties if she knows enough to say things to get your daughter on side.

You also post that her previous behaviour, pre chemo, was to phone up every few days telling you how depressed she was and needed to see you all.

This isn't chemo brain - this is a full blown controller who has controlled you for a long time when what you thought you had a close family, what you really had was a mother with no boundaries who could manipulate you at will and an enabling stepfather. The fact she always wanted to see the grandkids without you and even admitted that this was so she had control adds up to this.

I agree you with heading over to the Stately Homes thread. You are also going to need more than the 5 sessions of counselling you get through work.

Also please stop chasing your mum up with texts and phone calls. She knows what she is doing, as shown by her behaviour to your daughter. If she really really wanted to see the grandchildren she would do it under any conditions. The fact she doesn't speaks volumes.

I concur with AnnaMagnani - Stop playing her games. The more you try to mollify her, the more she feels like you are apologising for YOUR bad behaviour. She is gaslighting you, and you know it. You need to leave her alone to come to you. If she doesn't, then that's very sad, but it's her choice.

There's nothing wrong with you that makes you unable to just flick a switch and not care any more. It would be kind of weird if you could. This is your own mother, who brought you up for many years - the good stuff you're grateful for, the bad stuff you accepted because you're used to it. Not just the habits of a lifetime but social norms are telling you your mother is more often right than you are, that you owe her continued love and respect, that you should defer to the older person. Even if she'd been the original bitch cow from hell it would take a long time and a lot of therapy to unknot that particular tie. You've started the journey - it will be a long one. Be kind to yourself.