by 'devastating ' my DM?

[RapunzelsRealMom]

A little bit of background:
DM has helped with some childcare over the years. This has been a help, to a degree, but often more of a hindrance re her overstepping boundaries. The main reason she did it was for ‘alone time’ with DCs.

About a year ago she was diagnosed with cancer. Thank goodness she is now well and has finished her treatment. Her day to day life is back to normal (more or less) but she’s still not quite ‘herself’. By this, I mean that she’s not as aware of things, she’s talked to me about chemo brain, asked if side effects to her drugs included confusion. She walked out onto the road the other day with DC (age5) when I told her a van was coming. There’s more but that’s the gist.

So she asked me if she can go back to looking after the kids. DH and I have talked and talked about this! We are both in agreement, for the reasons above plus others, that this can’t happen.

I practiced what to say and how to say it in as kind a way as possible, and then put it away to the back of my head, dreading the day we’d have to talk about it.

Basically, she is devastated. She categorically denied everything I said, claimed that I was entirely wrong on every example i gave. It was excruciating. She is devastated and it's my fault, as you can imagine (not DH, of course, it's all me).

I thought she’s understand once she’d had a chance to think about it but, the following day, I took a Father’s Day gift round for DSF and it was awful! He didn’t speak to me, apart from saying thank you. She couldn’t even look at me. The atmosphere was dreadful and helped only by the fact other visitors were there,

How am I supposed to deal with this? I’m a good mum and try to be a good daughter but it seems, on this occasion, I’m apparently being a shitty daughter by being a good mum.

She is not used to people saying no to her and I think this, plus the aftermath of cancer is making this very difficult. Going by past issues, I foresee that she’ll NEVER get over this.

What do I do?

I don't think you should or need to make up any excuses to soften the blow, because ue it is a serious situation. Is she allowed to drive? Probably not. I'd follow the advice above about speaking to a professional in some way who would understand and to whom she might listen.

Can you soften it by making it clear she'll still see plenty of the DC? I don't know if your alternative childcare arrangements will allow for this but for example if you have a nanny or au pair they could take the children to your DM's one afternoon a week after school (nanny or au pair would stay).

Having said that, I expect a large part of the blow is that she doesn't want to think of herself as ill or non competent in any way. In other words it's not just about missing time with your DC but also about her own health and having to accept she still isn't 100% and may never be which nobody likes the idea of.

I understand your concern. Can you come up with a compromise that involves short periods of childcare with strict rules - in the home only, e.g. leaving your child with her for two hours to play in the garden? You could suggest this as an 'introductory' period, as she will be tired, and then review the situation as/when she is feeling a bit better. The mindfog from chemo does improve!

Having said that, I expect a large part of the blow is that she doesn't want to think of herself as ill or non competent in any way. In other words it's not just about missing time with your DC but also about her own health and having to accept she still isn't 100% and may never be which nobody likes the idea of.

100% this ^^

You can't compromise your dc safety.

I would try to find a way she can spend some special time with them that will be safe. Could you for instance go to paint a pot and they remain painting together and you pop out for half an hour (your dc will be in a safe place and spending special time etc)

You could also organise lovely things at home for them both or at her house.

Looking at it from her point of view, having survived such a life threatening experience and come through it, no doubt she was so happy to get her life back and spend time with her beloved grandchildren. This will be a body blow on top of what has already happened to her.

Go gently and so kindly. Do whatever you can to mitigate the pain she is clearly experiencing, she obviously loves them dearly and if it were me I would try to find a middle ground that guaranteed the safety of your dc and still allowing time with her. Perhaps your father could stay with her etc.

You have 100% done the right thing for your children.
Your mother's failure to even start to understand that demonstrates even more clearly that she is unfit to have them in her charge.
Her tantrumming about it also doesn't help!

If she's so desperate for time with your DC then she will have to "come around" to the new situation anyway, because otherwise when is she going to see them? I would make it quite clear to her that you will not be visiting her at home again if she and your SF are going to treat you so badly, you will not allow your DC to see you being treated like that.
If she really wants to see them then she will make some effort to come to terms with the new reality.

It might very well be that she's pretending to herself that she's perfectly fine, but it is NOT ok for her to do so at the potential expense of your DC's safety.

If you really want to go to town over it, ask her what she would have done if the 5yo had been hit by the van and killed? Ask her how she would have felt then? Ask her how she would feel if her actions or inability to make appropriate decisions caused the serious injury or death of your DC In any other situation?

I can't be doing with the "oh it'll be all right, stop fussing" style of thinking - that crap nearly got my DS1 drowned because neither my DH nor my MIL would listen when I told them he wasn't to go swimming in the lake with MIL because it was too dangerous (he was only little and couldn't swim). So they ignored me, because what do I know and she took him out in the lake while DH was fishing off the jetty - which shows that it gets deep very quickly off the shore - and she lost her footing. DH was baiting his line and didn't notice immediately, when he did notice, she was completely underwater, holding Ds1 above the water. If he'd taken much longer they both could have drowned. I was fucking LIVID. But they didn't do it again, so lesson learnt I suppose...
Your mother should have learnt her lesson from the van incident and hasn't, so she can't be trusted at all, IMO.

Sorry for the rant!

It's tempting to come up with compromises to smooth things over, or to soften the blow with promises of reviews but the trouble is there is a big risk the person concerned will only hear 'yes, ok then, i've changed my mind'.

I had a very small version of what the OP is going through with my mum. She dearly wants to take DD4 out for a walk with her alone. She uses 1 or 2 sticks (depending on how she is/how windy it is), her walk is around the block which in places a VERY narrow path by the road (rural). She is inclined to get sidetracked very easily chatting to locals. DD is 4 and is feisty, tends to pull, hates holding hands, 'dance about' instead of walking nicely and isn't to be trusted by the edges of the road yet.

I've said no mum, sorry it's not safe. Three times. I hate to do it but it's not safe. For either of them. She's not asked for a few months now. If i'd said 'when your knee's a bit better, when it's better weather, when DD calms down a bit, when x y z ... she'd still be asking me weekly which would just prolong the awkwardness :(

x posted with you thumb. How awful!

And that's exactly the sort of scenario i'm seeing with my mum and DD out together. Something'll happen and everyone will be upset and i'll end up with the guilt that it was my fault for not putting my foot down! Aaarrggh.

Thanks all for your input.

I'm in work right now - I posted at lunchtime. I'll respond properly to your various points after work

Stick to your guns Laiste - you're right, it's not worth the guilt afterwards, should anything awful happen. for you too.

What did you say to her?

You did the right thing but maybe you should have lied a bit. If she can't mind them then maybe you could all do things together instead.

DH's Aunt and Uncle used to badger me constantly to take my babies out. They were elderly and unsteady on their feet so I was very reluctant. DH's Aunt told me the very sad tale of her infertility and multiple miscarriages at great length and had a bit of a cry. Against my better judgement I agreed to let them take my baby and toddler down a local footpath once a week.

Fast forward 10 years or so, uncle has passed on and aunt quite confused, she started telling me this tale of the time uncle had a "funny turn" and fell in the ditch and how she couldn't get him out and was panicked about my toddler wandering off.

It wasn't the last time they took them though. I am absolutely fuming that she put her own gratification over my kids' safety. I'm also furious at myself for caving. If I'd been on mumsnet I'm sure it'd helped me grow a backbone.

A lot of mums have cancer, recover and carry on looking after their own children safely. I would let her do it, maybe not as much if it will be hard work for her but I wouldn't stop her caring for them altogether. How old are your dc?

If she 'never' gets over it, then she's not going to get to spend time with her GC, is she?!

I suspect she will 'get over it' right about the time she realizes that you won't be giving in to her, and that the longer she strops, then the longer she will go without seeing you or her GC.

A lot of mums have cancer, recover and carry on looking after their own children safely

I imagine most 'mums' are younger and fitter than 'grandmothers' and possibly heal and recover faster as a result. And where that isn't the case, the choices are often different.

Mums often don't have anyone else who can step in, and have to take the chance even when they're not fully up to it and hope nothing goes wrong.

There's no reason to jeopardize the safety of children so a grandmother's feelings aren't hurt. No. Reason.

Your first error was telling the truth, but that’s done now.
I think now spinning a new line is the right answer- the kids want to be at home/ love x etc theyd love to spend extra time with you/ at weekends/ innholidays/ for sleepovers (when DSD is around etc etc) if they are nice people they’ll except
The new lie, as it will be far easier to stomach. Yanbu for putting your kids first. Except for the bit where u made them (parents) confront an issue they clearly weren’t ready to accept!

You've done the right thing. Children's safety always comes first.

In response to some PPs:

Yes, I have DHs full support. We discussed this time and time again before coming to any decision. He is actually now getting angry as I've just had a half hour phone call with her telling me that I have broken her heart, she is devastated, she can't sleep, her friends are laughing at me, any examples I've used to try to get her to understand are lies or exaggerations. It was awful. We rowed, but, in general, I was very apologetic and understanding, however, I told her that I can't keep talking this over with her.

It sounds a bit dramatic, but I now feel nauseous and shaky. I'm so upset that she is upset and feels the blame is entirely on me.

I've told her that actually nothing has changed and she'll still see them as much as she has been, but this isn't good enough. She says she needs to have them alone as when they're with me I'm "in control". That annoyed me and I told her that I was bothered that she was talking about this in terms of "control". They are children - mine and DH's, not hers.

It's awful that some of you have had similar experiences or that you've felt pressured into allowing someone to have your kids when you're not comfortable with it. If something hellish happened , how could I live with myself?

SpandexTutu this is exactly what I've tried, but it wasn't accepted. I feel as if I was backed into a corner with this.

For those suggesting a compromise, I'm afraid there isn't one. One of the incidents I was worried about happened at her house and related to a full boiling kettle (she is now calling this 'kettkegate' WTF???!!!)

Miladamermalada Your post made me smile because , if I read this thread, that's exactly what I'd be thinking! Get a grip ffs

Beaumur This is exactly my worry. She doesn't seem to see the risk with the van (totally denies there was any risk). We can all make mistakes but surely we admit it, even if only to ourselves. She can't see anything wrong with what happened. In actual fact, the van slowed but only because an elderly woman and young child walked out in front of it. What if he'd been on his phone or not paying attention? I wouldn't put my own life in a stranger van driver's hands, never mind my 5 year old child.

Diddl exactly! However, It's easier to say that than accept it for yourself.

I have made it clear that she'll still see DCs, but it's not enough I'm afraid.

It sounds to me as if you have done and said all you could. Your point about her wanting to be "in control" was particularly valid. I am prepared to bet that her friends are completely uninterested, but it would be worth telling her that if any of her friends have any issues she can feel free to put them in touch with you when you will be happy to explain your reasons.

That apart, I think all you can do is to repeat that you have made your decision, you have explained it at length to her, she will still be seeing plenty of her grandchildren, and that this is not up for any further discussion.

She says she needs to have them alone as when they're with me I'm "in control".
This says it all really. Its not about wanting to spend time with the GC at all, its about her not liking that you aren't a child anymore and your DC don't default to her will.

"I have made it clear that she'll still see DCs, but it's not enough I'm afraid."

Ah, then perhaps she'd rather not see them?

Ask her how she'd like them apples??

Don't feel guilty about upsetting her-upsetting you obviously doesn't bother her!

Don't be blinded to your mother's deviousness just because she had cancer. The fact she has caused you to feel shaky shows how manipulative and nasty she's been. They are your children, yours and DH. Not hers. She's had her children, and she cannot have that control.
The fact your dad ignored you, and she said her friends are laughing at you, goes to show her toxicity is not isolated to her but continued through flying monkeys.
Hold your ground x

You just have to stand firm and ride the storm. I can see it from both sides as im sure many can (and you) and in your mums mind everything you're saying isn't true - and she believes it 100% .
I've been there with my dad after he had cancer - it's awful and I hope that awful sick feeling in the pit of your stomach eases soon. It will, but it'll take time.
Keep asking her over, out for a day with you n kiddies etc.... It'll come good eventually.
Sending you and y your mum much love and best wishes x

What is your stepfather like? If you spoke to him privately and explained all the previous incidents which really worried you, would he listen and try and speak to your mother? He may not know about them, or have her heavily altered versions?

Sorry OP I missed your update above so maybe some of my reply is useless.
All I can say is stand firm and gang in there.
I would take a break from contract for a while though so you can recharge your batteries and don't keep going round in circles with her x