by 'devastating ' my DM?

[RapunzelsRealMom]

A little bit of background:
DM has helped with some childcare over the years. This has been a help, to a degree, but often more of a hindrance re her overstepping boundaries. The main reason she did it was for ‘alone time’ with DCs.

About a year ago she was diagnosed with cancer. Thank goodness she is now well and has finished her treatment. Her day to day life is back to normal (more or less) but she’s still not quite ‘herself’. By this, I mean that she’s not as aware of things, she’s talked to me about chemo brain, asked if side effects to her drugs included confusion. She walked out onto the road the other day with DC (age5) when I told her a van was coming. There’s more but that’s the gist.

So she asked me if she can go back to looking after the kids. DH and I have talked and talked about this! We are both in agreement, for the reasons above plus others, that this can’t happen.

I practiced what to say and how to say it in as kind a way as possible, and then put it away to the back of my head, dreading the day we’d have to talk about it.

Basically, she is devastated. She categorically denied everything I said, claimed that I was entirely wrong on every example i gave. It was excruciating. She is devastated and it's my fault, as you can imagine (not DH, of course, it's all me).

I thought she’s understand once she’d had a chance to think about it but, the following day, I took a Father’s Day gift round for DSF and it was awful! He didn’t speak to me, apart from saying thank you. She couldn’t even look at me. The atmosphere was dreadful and helped only by the fact other visitors were there,

How am I supposed to deal with this? I’m a good mum and try to be a good daughter but it seems, on this occasion, I’m apparently being a shitty daughter by being a good mum.

She is not used to people saying no to her and I think this, plus the aftermath of cancer is making this very difficult. Going by past issues, I foresee that she’ll NEVER get over this.

What do I do?

I am sorry for the loss of your mum pinky . You are projecting though and its not fair on the OP. Her dad has already shown he is completely loyal to her mum, even giving her the silent treatment in support of her mum being unreasonable.

There is no way that you could trust a man like that to not leave OPs mum alone and lie about it for her. He can't be trusted to keep them safe either.

On top of that if you read through the updates, the gran is exhibiting very controlling and manipulative behaviour, which isnt unusual from the sounds of it. Insisting she should have them alone and refusing to do anything to mitigate safety risks.

I think Pinky is idealising-I also do so as my mum is dead, however had she not died we would have argued loads as we clashed a lot. This is controlling behaviour and should not be pandered to.
Sorry about your mum though.

My mum is dead too - no way would I have left her alone to look after my DC in her later years, as frankly I'm not convinced they would have been safe plus she'd have probably hit them.

It is very, very sad for your mum but you're doing the right thing, Pinky.

It's really quite simple-your kids are either safe with her or they're not.

I really think that it is a black & white situation.

As an immediate coping strategy during a phone call, three strikes and end the call. Something like:

1. The descision is made. I am not discussing it again. Please stop bringing it up.

She will then, inevitably try again.

2. Mum, there is nothing to discuss. Please don't ask about it again.

It's raised again

3. I have told you this is not up for debate. I'm going to end this call now as you aren't listening to me.

Please know it's also okay to look at your phone and decide not to answer every call she makes, and to not open or delete messages,mail and voicemail to give yourself a break.

Would you consider getting some help to deal with the damage her controlling behaviour has caused you over the years via counselling?

There's a book - Toxic Parents by Craig Buck and Susan Forward that is often recommended by MN posters.

Weezol thanks for the input. I understand and don't disagree. I've often considered counselling but I think she'd be so offended by anything I'd bring up, it'd make things worse!!

I feel very disloyal even having these thoughts.

To be fair, we had our family dinner this evening and she was very good. A couple of times she blanked me when I spoke but that could've been that she didn't hear above a noisy restaurant. I'm seeing her later in the week and that will be telling as it'll just be the two of us for much of the time

I get voicemails from a toxic relative which actually make the phone vibrate sometimes.
I have learned that putting the phone away from my ear once the voicemail is on and pressing 3, deletes them and I don't internalise the shit because I don't hear them.
Great feeling x

I know this is harsh after everything your mother has been through, but I think she is being a little selfish to ask yo look after the children again, when she knows she is having side effects from her medication that are potentially making her a danger to herself and your children.
You have done the right thing and I'm sure she will come round eventually.

Timeisslippingaway

I think the issue here is that OP's mum seems to be taking it personally when in fact it's not personal. It's not that OP's mum is an evil person or doesn't have the children's best interests at heart. It's that she's not a safe caregiver. I agree with you, it stinks. But if it's a choice of feelings vs safety, safety has to always come first.

There a bit of an update and I'm at my wits end:

She came round on Friday, as planned. It was awkward but we got on with it. She certainly wasn't happy but was making an effort to be polite, as was I.

As she was leaving (literally in the hallway on her way out), she started talking about it. I took her into another room and was very kind and gentle with her. We went over the same ground again and again. Then she started getting angry and saying that my kids weren't safe with me at times!! She kind of did this lunge thing at me, but not with her body, with her neck. Do you know what I mean? It was so aggressive and I was really taken aback. For context, my DM is very 'naice', not like that at all. She stormed off when we wouldn't change our minds. DH had come into the room half way through the exchange. He'd thought she'd gone and wondered where I was. He was totally supportive, left most of the talking to me, but stepped in from time to time.

A couple of hours after this she phoned me, apologising profusely. She said she understood that I was just being really careful with the kids because that's what I'm like. She seemed so upset and vulnerable. I really softened to her, then straight away she said, will you just bring them and leave them with me for a few hours? I was caught short and said, "We'll talk about it."

DH was furious and believes she was being manipulative so I texted her to explain I can't talk about it any more but we need to leave things as they are.

Today she texted to say that she wouldn't be here on
Friday for her usual visit. I offered for them both to come for dinner on s.aturday instead. She kept me hanging for hours but has now said no. No explanation, nothing.

I know it sounds silly but she always puts an x at the end, or makes texts a little chatty, so this was very different.

She is furious, devastated, she says she can't believe this I have "done this to her".

To be honest, if anyone is devastated , it's me. I can't believe that she could respond like this. I didn't expect her to be happy, but we have given her numerous examples (under duress - it was not a list of her failings) of why we must be careful. I've explained time and time again how much I love her but I have to put their safety first (trying to appeal to her caring nature - she adores them), but still she is acting devastated and spiteful in equal measure.

I can't see us getting over this

I would give it some time, she is obviously angry and it sounds like she is used to getting her own way.

My guess is she will come to you in a few weeks.

Whats your step father like? Would you feel comfortable leaving the kids with your mum if he was around as well? It does sound weird that she is insisting on having alone time with them though

To be honest, he's not someone I'd ever have asked to babysit. He's fine, mentally, just a bit blasé about anyone's safety (his own included!)

In my earlier post I meant counselling for you only, not family counselling. I think you would really benefit, I know I did.

You're falling back into making it all about her, just the way she likes it. You have seen her clearly acting out the script of hurt, angry, upset, charming all in order to get what she wants. Her actions have led to this, she is responsible for the situation. She will never accept this in real terms, but will, as you've seen, pay lip service to try to get what she wants.

Only you can stop this. Grey rock - 'We are not talking about this'.
If she doesn't turn up, don't chase her up. Don't feed the cycle.

It's hard and it will take a while, but it's the only way.

Thank you Weezol

OP it sounds really hard.

But remember, you didn't "do this to her". Cancer did. She is experiencing the grief from the losses that come from illness and is taking it out on you.

She can't have what she wants so she is sad and angry. But all of us in life have to come to terms with such things (I have a chronic condition that is limiting and have had to grieve my losses so am not unsympathetic).

Keep your children safe.

I read somewhere (in a book recommended on this site) that "Feeling guilty is not an emergency".

Helped me a lot when needing to not give in to unreasonable demands!

Think if it as you would your child's tantrum. She is throwing fastballs tantrum to get her way. And just as with children, because she's always got away with it in the past she's going to keep it up because she simply is unable to believe that you will hold firm to your no.

You need to give her a consequence to her tantrum. It's not nice, but what she is doing is not nice, and really not fair.

My DM has never been overly caring or helpful. never offering to babysit unless she got something out of it, never helped with a school run when i was sick, never showed interest unless it was to show off. however MIL is the opposite so ive never really "needed" my DM to be of help to me.

She was diagnosed with BC last year and had chemo. She has since used it every 2 minutes. To the point of (after radiotherapy and everything had ended and she was clear) stood in a long store queue and the cashier got stuck with someone and called for a manager. DM loudly declared "for god sake, tell them ive got cancer!! tell them! i should go first, i shouldnt be queuing". i almost died and hissed at her to shut up. she claims she still cant lift her arm, is in daily pain and everything she forgets is "chemo brain". yet when i go to her drs with her (she wont go alone to ANY appointments, which is fine) she tells him everythings fine and waves her arm around like shes doing the fucking YMCA.

I fully used the chemobrain as a reason to distance my kids. So now, when she wants to do the doting granny act and have them round (to scream at them and force them to do jobs for her), i say no.

we had this big kick off, exactly like you describe. unreasonable behaviour then soft and meek. also the "other people are laughing at you" bringing family/friends into it. I ignored her. She pulled away from the kids like your DM is doing now...

... then, when i didnt pander, she came round to me. she now jumps at invitations and doesnt cause trouble. because she realised i didnt give a shit and theyre MY kids.

I'm sorry, OP. I know it's incredibly hard, but you're doing the right thing.

Your children's safety MUST come above all else. And she is clearly unable to admit that she isn't safe to leave them with alone any more, so you have to make the decision for her, no mater how upset and unreasonable she is being.

Grey rock ... totally agree with this position explained by others.

And so the drama continues.

DM has not been in contact this week. As she refused to see us Fri or Sat, I gave her some space and time to get her head round the situation.

Today, I texted her asking if she still needed space or if we should get back in touch again.

After a few childish and argumentative texts, I called her to basically say, let's stop this texting back and forth and talk to each other again.

Well, it started the entire conversation again. She claims she has no idea why I have done this (despite me explaining on FIVE separate occasions), I have made her ill these past 2 weeks, my step father is furious with me, she can't believe that I don't trust her. It was awful and went on and on.

She said she will not accept this, cannot even look at me or DH.

I stood firm but she goaded me into giving examples of her worrying behaviour that I really did not want to give ( I didn't want this to turn into DM-bashing and it didn't but she went on and on to tell her everything that she'd done 'wrong' - any example I gave she would shout back at me how wrong I am).

I didn't raise my voice or get angry (on the outside) but I'm furious and upset. I ho early feel sick - I have done this whole fortnight.

What the hell am I going to do??? She thinks I'm the worst person in the world, but you know what, I'm beginning to think that she is too.

She can't bear for me to say no to her.

This probably isn't making s lot of sense. I'm sorry, I'm just so upset

Firstly I'm sorry to hear that she has had cancer.
Secondly, I suggest the Stately Homes thread here on Mumsnet.
The more I've read, the more it sounds like needs to be in control of everything but then she lost that control during treatment and now she is trying to forcefully seize it back and showing her true colours.
You sound like you've handled it very well and calmly. I bet you are feeling though.
I don't think your mother will ever accept that she has a fault, so when she asked you to list your concerns you were already in a position where you couldn't win, whatever you said.

I really feel for you. I suggest you take a break for a bit.

*reeling

Sorry you are upset OP, completely understandable in the circumstances.

But the way to stop this is not to discuss it with her again - just a flat no. You don't have to turn up to every argument you are invited to (and she'll invite you again and again by the sound of it) so it's just a flat no with nothing up for discussion. If she avoids contact with you and your family then that's up to her - don't react to threats and bluster because of a choice she has made herself!

She sounds like someone who has never been told No.

Not your problem.

Don't let it make it your problem.

Stand firm. The safety of your children come first.

Your Stepfather just wants an easy life at home, which he's not getting while you're doing the right thing. Ignore him.

your reasons were valid. they still are. she is throwing her toys out of the pram to make you back down. this is your childrens SAFETY we are talking about - dont back down.

she will come round - she has far more to lose than you do in this situation

You are a great mum.
Your mother is manipulative and controlling. Good for you for standing up for yourself and your children. Their safety comes way above your mother's wishes to care for them solo (what is that about anyway?! I HATE that! She had her kids to care for solo, any time she gets with yours is a bonus).
Hang in there. And don't give in to her manipulative ways. She is stropping because she is not used to not getting her own way.

She may not come round. Mine didn't, slightly different circumstances but she is as stubborn as they come. Personally I feel more liberated and relived than sad. Her loss.