To think MN needs its feminists?

[crunchymint]

Sites like MN need its users to generate content. We are its product. All services need something unique about them to differentiate themselves from the competition. At one time what differentiated MN from its competitors was that there were more intelligent discussions on here.
Now the same type of discussions happen on MN as elsewhere.

What differentiates MN from its competitors are the large number of feminists on here. That is what is unique about this site. To keep going as a decent ongoing commercial concern, MN needs its feminists. Otherwise it has nothing to differentiate it from other sites.

N.B What differentiates NM is that its local sites are far superior to any other site.

Why would feminists not continue to post? If it's not about the transphobia issue, why would anyone be wishing to leave?

Does leave the bastard have feminist origins? Or is it just something people say when a partner is acting badly?

Acksherly, I bought all three of mine (one girl one boy one non-binary (okay, she’s a gc girl really)) matching Boden t shirts. It was great. As one grew out of it, we just moved the sizes down to the next kid and put the smallest t shirt into the charity bag. I miss children that could fit into Boden. It used to be fabulous to be able to buy non gendered clothes. Mine all wore Boden as a matter of course.

Looking at my household budget this month, I do still shop. Rather too much.

"but we want a rounded discussion, not just the same old voices on the same old topic.

Why not start some threads?

So why not start a thread of your own then?

Yes, that's what I suggested you do. I got the impression you were bored with repeating the same discussions, so you could start a new topic instead. If that's not the case, then why are you feeling the need to leave?

It isn’t popular to say so, but the mn demographic (and USP) was that it was filled with women with higher educational qualifications, iqs etc. That’s not quite so true any more I don’t think, as numbers have been prioritized (it is a business after all). I haven’t seen the latest demographics though, nor tracked them over time.

Ah so Boden DO sell dungarees....

're the trans issue isn't it the case that there is a vacuum in national decision making so that is filled with entrenched views repeated in order to fill the airwaves?
I've seen some really unpleasant posts on both sides though as a GC person I have a higher tolerance on that side.

LTB. Predates MN by years.

For those asking why we don't start our own threads - I saw one user a few months ago start a pro-trans thread on the feminism board and she got literally 600 responses from other MNers viciously tearing into her - calling her a handmaid, saying she had no right to post that opinion on a feminism board because - in their view - being pro-trans was incompatible with feminism, mocking and abusing her. I wanted to comment on the thread in support but it was like battling 50 foot waves and I just couldn't do it. I've also seen a lot of feminism threads that ostensibly have nothing to do with trans rights hijacked by people who want to criticise TRAs. We even saw that on posts about the Irish abortion referendum - some MNers couldn't resist turning that unbelievably important question into a bun fight about sex vs gender. So I think it's disingenuous to claim that the solution is as simple as starting more threads when the truth is a lot of MNers act as though only point to feminism is to criticise transwomen.

Feminist boards tend to HATE any view that is not their own. Dome do genuinely look for your opinion but most are like PP said and just wsnt to tear into anyone who disagrees or takes a different stance on transgender issues.

“So I think it's disingenuous to claim that the solution is as simple as starting more threads when the truth is a lot of MNers act as though only point to feminism is to criticise transwomen.”

I agree that there are lots of feminist issues apart from the current trans hot button, and I wish there were more threads about them.

I have to say that, although I am gender critical, i don’t criticize trans women because they are transwomen. I have criticized the language and tactics of Trans Rights Activists - and rightly so. But I do not think they represent the views of most trans people- I think they are doing them a disservice. What I really want is to ask questions and have them answered and to be part of a process that gets most of us most of what they want. I think many feminists feel the same,

@MyOtherUsernameisaPun, I'm in complete agreement with you. My suggestion was to a poster who is "gender critical" but seemed bored with the current conversations. Which is understandable, they are all very very similar (and predictable).

“So why not start a thread of your own then?

Yes, that's what I suggested you do. I got the impression you were bored with repeating the same discussions, so you could start a new topic instead. If that's not the case, then why are you feeling the need to leave?”

Sorry- I’m a bit confused. Was your reply intended for me?

While I think MN might be different if those feminists against the policy change were to leave, I don't think it's a need. To me, that implies that MN would not be able to function without them and I really don't think that is the case.

I also don't think all or even most who identify as feminists (of any of the dozens of feminist schools of thought) will leave over this or that those who don't identify with any of the branches of feminism do not bring a valuable contribution to the site. Really, it seems a lot are getting tired of how those issues are getting discussed here and a shakeup might be helpful.

“Why not start a thread of your own then” was my reply to someone who said they wanted to post on FWR but didn’t like the tone of the posts.

I AM one of the posters starting my own threads and contributing - I’m bored of the arguments because again and again discussions get derailed by a single or pair of posters who seem determined not to read the thread, who keep spouting lies about what other posters are saying and who clearly have an agenda which has nothing to do with feminism in any guise.

I'm a feminist. I don't think most of the feminists you are talking about would agree that I am one, though, because I don't feel the way they feel about trans issues and MNHQ's recently shared guidelines on related discussions on the board.

I think that those users who are angry enough about this issue to want to boycott/ leave MN would be surprised by just how little importance most of the membership attach to it. I may be wrong of course, but I do not think their exodus would lead to the massive outcry they imagine.

I think AIBU is where the feminist dialogue really happens, not on the feminist boards.

There are a lot of feminists in relationships who help to guide women through very difficult situations. They are kind, patient, knowledgeable and invaluable.

AIBU is where I have had my arse handed to me on feminist issues, if that’s what you mean!

I am certainly very uneasy with the idea of all feminist discussion being shunted off to the feminism boards for people to ignore and hide. If I want to start a feminist discussion, I post in Chat or AIBU and people sometimes get very cross with me!

I mean actually on the Relationships board, not in relationships.

I would say that MN has an overall feminist tone.

And that there are a lot of people who wouldn't call themselves feminists but have strong feministy spirits. I remember posting about some disgusting things that a teachers said to be once in AIBU, expecting people to tell me to calm down, that it was just a joke, etc, but everyone told me that it was unacceptable and to report.

I was pretty surprised that most posters all over MN have a strong feminist sense of what is acceptable, and this doesn't necessarily have to do with being an overt feminist.

The question is: have MNHQ issued these new guidelines because they believe in them or because they're scared?

Humanity needs feminists. Doesn't make everything they say right, doesn't mean they all agree on every single point, and it doesn't mean they speak for all women - but they do voice their opinion and make men like me think.

That's not to say non-feminists aren't listened too, it's just that many feminists present a very well reasoned argument, and have a habit of explaining some of the awful crap that all women endure.

Does MN need them for revenue? I doubt it.
I'm not even sure who 'them' is. Feminism to me embraces such a wide number of women (and men for that matter) who share a pretty common goal, without necessarily a common view on how to get there.

Bleedin' feminists. Coming over here, wrecking people's marriages.

This is such an important issue but the actions of some posters have caused a lot of MNetters to switch off completely.

I hate the current climate on MN where someone disagreeing is immediately considered with suspicion and their opinion dismissed or they're accused of trolling or being a TRA or a handmaiden. Or just piled on so they retreat because of the hostility.

This has been going on for so long and it was ignored. Requests to have a dedicated board were objected to so lots of people hid FWR. Which is a shame.

The need to have the same arguments over and over was considered more important than the fact it was alienating a lot of people and actually having the opposite effect than what was intended.

This thread will probably be dismissed in some minds as containing TRAs or whatever. People do fear the backlash of not agreeing 100% with a certain POV so often avoid certain threads. There is no debate to be had on certain threads and alot of us just don't want to have the same arguments over and over or be accused of something. So they become more and more of an echo chamber. Not all the threads btw (some are fantastic and people do need to know what is happening!).

The idea that MN would collapse without the feminists is really not likely. Many feminists (including GC ones) don't allign with many of the more prominent views so would still be here.

And the petition which was widely publiscised on here around consulting women on proposed changes to GI laws limped to over 10,000 with many threads and bumping over weeks. The free Tommy Robinson petition had over 500,000 within 72 hours.

I think that's a terrifying indictment of our society, it's beliefs and priorities. But it also makes me think MN won't collapse if some of it's feminist users left given the enormous number of members.