To think MN needs its feminists?

[crunchymint]

Sites like MN need its users to generate content. We are its product. All services need something unique about them to differentiate themselves from the competition. At one time what differentiated MN from its competitors was that there were more intelligent discussions on here.
Now the same type of discussions happen on MN as elsewhere.

What differentiates MN from its competitors are the large number of feminists on here. That is what is unique about this site. To keep going as a decent ongoing commercial concern, MN needs its feminists. Otherwise it has nothing to differentiate it from other sites.

N.B What differentiates NM is that its local sites are far superior to any other site.

YABU.
The vast, vast, majority of people come on MN for support on family issues, to talk about fashion. celebrities, the telly, or to just chat about random nonsense.
A tiny minority want to discuss feminism.

I think feminism should always put first the most marginalised women.

As a trans-inclusive feminist I would include transwomen in this statement.

Skarossinkplunger Mon 18-Jun-18 19:29:09

Twombly you’ve just proved the point made by many in here that if you don’t agree with feminist posters you’re subject to name calling and abuse.

In real life I call myself a feminist but on MN I don’t because I do not want to be associated with the hateful anti-trans sentiment yet you would have me labelled as a ‘misogynist’ for saying I wasn’t a feminist.

I said no such thing. If you want to pick a fight, pick a valid one.

“If you are satisfied that transwomen are women,”

Hideandgo- can you outline the process that led you to be satisfied that they are?

Hideandgo what do you think about male rapists who identify as women being placed in women’s prisons?

What about males who identify as female going into women’s refuges? Mindful of the fact that most males who identify as female keep their penis? And that this could cause great distress to the women in the refuge?

Also, if your feminism involves working to undo women’s hard won rights to have SEX not gender segregated spaces, by fighting for the rights of males who identify as female to use women only spaces and services.... It isn’t feminism. It’s mens rights activism.

Skaross as a parent of a trans kid I absolutely see where you're coming from. We all have to do our best to find our way through this and we will choose different paths. My way is to tell my kid he can identify and present how he likes and we will love him just the same; but he needs to recognise others may not see it the same way. That distinction is important for his own mental health, because leading him to believe otherwise will cause disappointment. So in your case, Skaross, of course I would call your nephew 'he' and support his right to dignity and safety. Some people might be 'misgendering' but it's a matter of opinion whether that's bullying. He needs to know that some people are assholes, that some people have real issues with trans ideology, and that is the reality he will have to learn to manage.

but in my opinion are 100% the fault and responsibility of criminals and predators.

I disagree with this slightly.
I think there is also a concern about those that are neither, but are still rather confused or fluid in their gender.
I'm a heterosexual male, and sometimes I can become aroused without that arousal being predatory.

If my gender was fluid, even in the slightest, then I may well be perfectly genuine and well intentioned as identifying as female. However, in the presence of women, I might well have a moment of fluidity that caused arousal. Would it be fair or appropriate to become aroused amongst females, and possibly children in a changing room?

Also, it's not possible for a woman to know the motives of someone with a penis in a female space. That doesn't mean they think all Male identifying Trans are a danger, far from it, just that they cannot tell the difference.

We lock our homes at night not because we think everybody outside is a threat to us, but because we know some are. We are not antisocial because we want to feel safe from those relative few.

I call those people keyboard warriors.

I respectfully disagree. I have friends who are evangelical Christians. I remain friends with them and I am fiercely critical of the church they go to. They know that. They have strong opinions on atheists. I know that too. We manage.

I’m extremely worried about self ID and the safeguarding of children. Why would I be unpleasant to an individual child? There’s no benefit to that. It doesn’t advance any argument. It doesn't help.

I want to talk about how this is going to affect women and children - because it will. I want to talk about how gender is being manoeuvred to replace sex in legislation and society and the impacts that will have on the equality act. These are important issues and I will not be silenced on them any more than I’ll be silenced on my views on religion. I do not believe humans can change sex and I believe that the current climate of affirmative treatment for minors is not compliant with medical ethics.

There’s no law against blasphemy yet.

I believe the UK does have blasphemy laws, although only for Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Newbie, quite honestly I think it’s the only area where there may need to be separation by sex. But I think it needs to be researched and checked if there are some parameters that make sense, or handicaps that should be applied. I also wonder if we might see non-trans women starting to beat trans women in competition at the same rate as not but that’s just a theory. I used to play mixed sport as a teen at times and I know I played at a different pace, speed and strength, on those days. I always wondered why we couldn’t train and compete alongside men in certain sports. In any case, transwomen in women’s sport needs research and consideration but I see it as a challenge to resolve not a virus to be stamped out.

My ideological stance is integration of the sexes rather than segregation. I fundamentally believe that women only spaces reinforce our status and image as weaker and vulnerable when really the problem is the policing and prosecution of bad men.

Issues I’d love to discuss but am afraid to on the feminist boards here.

I have no idea why you would call them keyboard warriors, I would not dream of misgendering or deadnaming. I think transpeople should have all the rights they are entitled to under the law.i am not transphobic. But I am yet to be convinced that transwomen are literally women. And there are elements of the trans agenda that concern me. The impact on lesbians for example. Sport. Crime statistics. Women in history. To name the first that come to mind

peachgreen Totally disagree. Why are they the most marginalised?

The most marginalised doesn't necessarily equate to the most oppressed or most suffering.

“My ideological stance is integration of the sexes rather than segregation. I fundamentally believe that women only spaces reinforce our status and image as weaker and vulnerable when really the problem is the policing and prosecution of bad men.”

Then surely it would be better if trans women used men’s spaces rather than women’s? Isn’t transwomen’s insistence on using women's spaces reinforcing the division?

Women who play sport are not guinea pigs for you to test those theories on. You seem to be implying an end to all sex segregation, which is at least an honest perspective. I do not want an end to sex segregation, can I ask why your views trump mine.

Marginalised means treated as insignificant or periphery. Nobody can surely say that about the trans community?
They are a tiny minority and yet there are lots of articles and TV programmes about them.
I am a disabled woman a much larger group that is rarely talked about unless you have autism or ADHD. My particular disability is never talked about publically and there is massive lack of public knowledge about it.

If you had a loved one in dire need of an organ transplant to save their life and were told that a cross-gender organ transplant would reduce their chances of survival, which sex of an organ donor would you like the surgeon to choose - the biological one, or the elected one?

If you are satisfied that transwomen are women, there's no need to exclude them

Well, yes.

But who, honestly, is truly satisfied that men are women?

There's being polite and respecting someone's name and identity, and then there's plain fantasy.

We all know the truth. And some of us are willing to examine the consequences, even at the risk of being called names.

I'm not trying to be facetious.

If we did all believe trans women were women there would be no issue at all. We wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The fact that we are tells us something very important.

Well, transwomen may well be women- I don’t know. And nobody will ever tell me how they came to that conclusion. I know 3 trans people. The trans woman does not say she is a literal woman - she says she is a trans woman. Of the two trans men, one I don’t know well, enough to ask, and the other is too young for it to be appropriate for me to ask.

If a woman is raped, and semen samples are taken...
should preOp Transwomen be required to give a sample?

Thank you.

I don't think MN has much to worry about as it has lots of different people on it. Most of us are feminists. Most people in the Uk are feminists as it just means equality for men and women including at work and at home which is hardly controversial unless you are a fundamentalist religious person.

On the trans issue I support our current law and don't think we need to change it.

We all know the truth. And some of us are willing to examine the consequences, even at the risk of being called names.*

I agree. Nobody actually believes, hand on heart, that transwomen are women. Do they?

I think you do know. If you trust the biology you learnt at school

(Sorry - that was to Betrand