To wonder when to tell DH that enough is enough?

[Havethewishiwishtonight]

My DH was always affectionate, funny and generally lovely to be around. Something changed a few months ago, he became withdrawn from me and family life in general, and I was (and still am) devastated. We've become just two people living in the same house, nothing more, nothing less.

Lots of things have been said, but if i ask him outright what the problem is, he won't say. First he said it was my attitude towards him, so i became more aware of that and changed - now everything's been fine for months. Next he said that he didn't feel appreciated by myself or the children - I told him of course he is, and we show him that in all the things we do for him and how much we love him.

Now everything has become about 'his money' and how I don't have a job. We have two young DC who have recently started school, one of whom has special needs and only attends part time. I do everything around the house, he doesn't lift a finger, as well as 95% of the childcare, even on weekends. My DS with special needs cannot be left in childcare so i am trying my hardest to find a job that is on certain days, and only within very specific hours (which is proving extremely difficult).

I find my DH very resentful of me. He resents that the children favour me, he resents that I am a sahm, even though I contribute just as much as he does to family life. He has withdrawn all affection, will not initiate sex, will not speak to me unless he has something to say. It is just devastating.

I just wonder whether when I get a job, it still won't be enough for him. Will there just be some other excuse why he can't make more effort and be my husband?

AIBU to wonder when enough is enough?

Anna I have thought that this could be depression. He says it's not and that whilst he may feel a little depressed about being unhappy, that is not the root cause.

I do want to work this out, as like I have said previously, he has changed and isn't acting like himself at all.

I will speak to him again about counselling.

You should tell him if he needs time to work out whether he wants to stay in the marriage or not then he needs to move out to do it, otherwise nothing will change especially if he won't see a counselor with you

If he really wanted to sort this out, he would not refuse counselling, he'd be trying anything and everything to try and get help.

I think you should tell him he either has counselling (on his own, not couples as it's not recommended where abuse is involved) or your relationship is over. And if he still refuses, then end it.

OP I would book a counsellor for him and tell him if he has any sense of responsibility left within him as far as his family are concerned, he has to give this a shot. It's very likely that he's depressed or similar. He can't self-diagnose this. He should also go to the GP. Tell him if he can't do this for himself, do it for the children. He can't get better on his own. In the meantime, tell him his behaviour is killing you and his refusal to get help could result in his children growing up in a broken home. These are serious consequences. In such circumstances, he needs to take action.
Good luck and keep talking.

I still think there is someone else for there to be such a sudden shift in his mood and behaviour. General unhappiness doesn't suddenly, noticeably, kick in.
Just because he has said there isn't anyone else, that doesn't mean it is true.

Havethewish assuming you are getting the right picture there, it’s great that he has finally talked to you.
However, it’s worth remembering that
1- you CANT make him happy. Whether he is depressed, just unhappy, he is the only person who can find the reason for it. Refusing to go and see a counsellor and hoping that ‘talking together’ will be enough isn’t good because it’s somehow putting the burden ON YOU to help him find his way. And that’s not you ur responsibility. Your responsibility is to support him, not to solve the problem for him, be the catalyst of his understanding etc...

this journey is one he needs to make alone, esp of actually his realisation is that the relationhsip is making depressed/unhappy. How is he expecting you to support him, help find the reasons of his unhappiness whilst staying neutral AND deal with whatever his answers mean to you?? It cannot work on a very practical level.

2- being unhappy isn’t a get of jail card. It doesn’t mean that because he is unhappy, you need to jump through hoops to make him happy or that you should just accept to be treated as an emotional punching ball.
You really need to have a chat with him about your boundaries and what you will not accept. Be ready too to actually act in those (if he starts putting you down regularly for example, and this is a string boundary for you, are you ready to tell him to leave??).
This is very important because I’ve noticed that the talk you’ve had is all about him, his unhappiness etc... but there is nothing about you there. Nothing about how unacceptable the way he behaved is, how hurtful it was etc... nothing about what you are happy to do to support him and what you will NOT accept from him.

Relationship are a two way street.
Just as much as I truly believe that partners should be supporting each other through the ups and downs of life, I’ve also learnt that it’s ok to say you are not going to accept xxxx, even if said partner is ill/has MH issues/is unhappy.
Because being respectful of others should happen even when people are ill etc...
Because you cannot be held responsible of the happiness of your partner either.

Also see you reaction to him saying he is unhappy.
You’ve just jumped into the full on caring mode, what can he do, is counselling the right thing, maybe he is depressed etc etc.
The issue with being in a caring mode like this, like you would with a child, is that you also jump easily into a sacrifice mode (like you would sacrifice yourself for your child).
What about you in there?
Who is going to care for you, seeing the awful few months you’ve been going through?
Why should it be ok for you to give up on your boundaries, what you believe in, on respect because he is ‘unhappy’? But somehow he wouldn’t be doing that for you? (Because form your posts, it’s not something he has ever done for you, even a little bit)

Be very careful there.
It’s also OK to, put yourself first, to establish what you will NOT accept. It’s not selfish and it doesn’t make you an unkind person.
Because yu need to be as kind and giving towards yourself as you wouod be towards him iyswim.

You are playing the “pick me” game.

Depression does not often cause people to mistreat others. People decide to mistreat their partner for numerous reasons unrelated to mental health!

You may well simply be seeing an unpleasant side to his personality and behaviour that he has never wished to show you until now. He is now toying with leaving you, for whatever reason, and doesn’t wish to treat you well in the meantime.

He now has no reason to treat you well - other than his conscience, which is clearly well awry! - while he decides what to do next because he can treat you badly, with no negative consequences for himself.

I have told him firmly that if he decided to stay then things wouldn't be staying as they are now. That he really needed to start trying and making an effort, more time together, and seeing a marriage counsellor. Isn't that enough?

It wouldn’t be enough for me, but it’s your life!

And how long will you give him to decide?

It wouldn't be enough for me either.

I would be tempted to say 'you can't stay if you're not sure. Move out. Let us both consider our options'. Let him know you have options too. I certainly would not and could not be with a man who expressed such uncertainty about me. But I do understand it's a personal decision, you need to be as ease with your decision. Think about therapy.

OP would you consider counselling/therapy for yourself? I think it would be helpful.

At the very least, his staying needs to be conditional on his seeing a counsellor.

If he refuses to do that then he needs to go.

He’s told you he’s unhappy and he’s not sure if he loves you. Your only response to that really is to tell him to bugger off then and only come back when he’s worked it out.

Telling him you’ll wait and continue to do all his cooking and laundry and all the childcare while he decides if he wants to leave to or not is just going to ruin your self esteem and it gives him all the power.

You need to take control of this. He’s walking all over you at the moment.

I have told him firmly that if he decided to stay then things wouldn't be staying as they are now. That he really needed to start trying and making an effort, more time together, and seeing a marriage counsellor.

So, when did you say that? Has he made a start?

Starting to try and make an effort wouldn’t be enough for me either.
Because there is no need for him to actually BE nicer to you. Only to try.

So the risk of you being left in that no man lands where he is treating appalling but you ought to see past that ‘because he is trying’ is too high.
It also means that not respecting your boundaries is actually ok. I mean would actually tell him that he needs to try and make an effort not to hit you? I dint think so. So why wouod it be ok for him to just try and make an effort to not put you down, not treat you with respect etc?
Remember that each time he is not respecting your boundaries, he is hurting you. Hurting just as deeply as if he was physically hitting you. Don’t let him do that. And don’t let him think it’s an ok thing to do too.

Also what i wouod like to see is NOT him doing things (such as spending time as a family).
What I wouod like to see him do is to STOP doing some of the awful things he has done.
Think about it, what would be the point of him spending more time as a family if it’s to use that time being negative, putting you down, finding fault in what you are doing??

I would see a flat refusal to see a counsellor as an unspoken refusal to make any effort with the marriage or as a parent. The situation is too serious from the latest posts, and I’d say he is afraid that a counsellor would see him for what he is, because he would have to face up to how he treats you and the DC. The whole point of talking to a stranger is so that they are impartial, they listen to both partners equally and prevent rows, or one partner interrupting or talking over the other.

No counselling, he leaves. You can have counselling by yourself, which can be very useful. He sounds an emotional abuser to me.

Yeh I notice he isn't exactly beside himself over how unhappy you obviously are OP. It's all about him and his feelings that you need to tie yourself in knots fixing. The fact that you are miserable as well doesn't seem to come into it. You just need to swallow that up and wait to see how his "midlife crisis" plays out apparently. Who's bending over backwards to keep you happy to stop you from leaving? No one. I'm glad you've had a heart to heart and got everything out in the open, but it all still sounds very much on his terms. It doesn't sound like you have much power or much of a voice in this relationship, and I suspect you havent for a while. It wouldn't be enough for me either but I appreciate you want to do everything you can before calling it a day.

OP you have already said more than once that he wont go and see a counsellor. you also say that you know you cant sort this out without one. so whats it to be?

If you back down on that one requirement then things wont change. At the moment he has all of the power and you are just giving in to him. So whilst there might be some changes they wont last.

all you are both doing at the moment is kicking the football down the road and that is very sad for both of you.

I know he wouldn't be unreasonable over practical things like finances.

Please don't think this way. I "knew" the same about my exH, and I was dead wrong. I thought he was the sort of person who wouldn't be able to live with himself if he acted with anything but integrity and fairness, but when his desire to leave the marriage outweighed everything else he instead made it my fault that he was unhappy, so that he could continue to feel as though he was behaving well, even while he was cheating and taking me for everything I had. I was completely blindsided by the whole thing and I wasn't the first and I won't be the last.

I know you're not ready to take any definitive steps but that can work in your favour right now: please get hold of financial documentation and anything else you might end up needing. He doesn't have to know and you don't have to use it, but there's no reason in the world not to take this sensible precaution for the sake of you and your DC.

Op that's everything my bestfriend's husband said. There was and still is an OW.

Men compartmentalise and try to save face in every direction when cornered.

He is lying through his teeth and thats why he wont see a 3rd party. I'd bet my house on it.

He's saying what he's saying because he wants his cake and eat it too. Anyone with an ounce of desire to fix their marriage would go to counseling and be eager to work on things with a professional who has the tools to heal a marriage. He doesn't want to see a counselor because he knows he'll be told to change his attitude and start being a partner instead of a prick. Also, he's keeping you there with promises that the two of you are going to work on the marriage by 'talking'. What that means is that he's going to tell you what's wrong with you/your marriage and he expects you to fix yourself.

I would say there is another woman he is interested in and she is telling him how shitty his life is.

If it isn't this perhaps a friend of his is newly single and celebrating life, and he is tempted to do the same?

My ex was exactly the same, all my fault the kids fault etc, he was knocking us about on the regular for years before too. But he was worse, completely detached and didn't even try to "make it better" after with a bag of peas like he did before.

I knew there was another woman for about 3 months before he told me she had been at our house, while I helped out on a school trip. Bed was changed and bedding washed. He still denied it all, to this day.

4 months later I had seen lots of texts and FB messages, we went to his friends house for dinner, I stood up and told them he was cheating on me. They laughed at me and so did he.

2 months later he tried to kill me, told me I had ruined his life everything was my fault. Work issues, money, kids hating him, his weight etc etc I left the home.

3 weeks later he moved in with the very woman I accused him of cheating on me with... But apparently, I was wrong.

absolutely 100% what notsurprisedatall says
please don't hold onto the belief that he will do the right thing. If he does then you have lost nothing but if he doens't then you might save yourself and your children a world of grief. Just ask him as part of these chats (as you counselling him instead of a professional) to reassure you by putting all money and asssets in joint names and gauge his reaction .
My sister whose husband everyone said would never see his children go without his now living in a 5 bed house (with the ow) and my sister is really struggling. She knows he got a bonus of more than £50k recently at work (she saw a bank statement by mistake) and the same day he told his daughter that she will have to give up piano - she is a grade 7 and wants to study music at university. He also told her he can't afford to pay for her university and that she will have to forget about driving lessons etc. He claims the house is rented off a friend in work who is doing him a favour but I know the person who sold it to him so its not true.

Of course none of these things like piano and driving are essential but he always encouraged his children to think they can have anything and he has now pulled the rug from under them too. He is convinced my sister used him as an atm for 17 years of marriage (he made her give up her job as he had to travel so much). My sister is struggling to put food on the table and my parents are helping her out. Don't end up like this.

he was really central to our extended family and even still my parents are thinking he;s had a breakdown and when he gets better he will do the right thing.

your OH is doing the exact same things saying all the same things as he did before he left.

i hadn't seen notsurpisedatall's second message but I was referring to the first one