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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Children kept in cages - Texas

237 replies

JerushaAbbott · 18/06/2018 04:31

This article in the Guardian today: Children in cages.

What can a non-US citizen do? I know there are undoubtedly worse atrocities happening somewhere in the world, but this article has shocked me.

When I was younger I was involved in anti-apartheid demos, CND, Greenham etc. Now I feel hopeless.

OP posts:
Semster · 19/06/2018 13:38

The children being separated are either unaccompanied or trafficked themselves as miniature human shield and not even related to the adults who are using them to gain sympathy

This is so untrue that even Republican politicians aren't trying to claim it.

Battleax · 19/06/2018 13:39

What's new - and indeed "novel" and "unprecedented" - is the criminalisation of asylum-seeking with the specific aim of separating families, because this is thought to have a deterrent value.

And the sheer scale of the detentions.

Original poster
JerushaAbbott · 19/06/2018 13:43

The children being separated are either unaccompanied or trafficked themselves as miniature human shield and not even related to the adults who are using them to gain sympathy

And even if it were true, the children would be the victims in this and even more care should be taken with them.

OP posts:
A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 14:00

And in the meantime, treat those children better. Understand that a lot of those people fleeing the region are fleeing political and social instability the US has had a hand in causing, they are not solely economic migrants

I do understand, however you need to understand that the law is the law. I know that sounds callous but it needs to be respected. The USA did have a hand in causing some issues but it has to be pointed out that this was wasn't their intention, the WoD started in the 1970's with Nixon and they could not have foreseen what was going to happen.

Semster · 19/06/2018 14:14

I do understand, however you need to understand that the law is the law

The law can however be applied in different ways, and Trump is choosing to apply it a particular way for his own political purposes... a way that even his own party are sickened by.

chicken2015 · 19/06/2018 14:18

Im not sure if its true but i read that cartel r at boarder and people are too scared to cross, how ever they are coming here it does not justify what is currently happening with the children being taken away.

A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 14:20

Semster,

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-democrats-us-border-migrant-families-children-parents-mexico-separate-a8401521.html

An unbiased (I think) short report on the issue. We're not going to get anywhere whilst people have this unnatural hatred for Trump.

Original poster
JerushaAbbott · 19/06/2018 14:27

@A4710Rider

I don't think my antipathy towards Trump is 'unnatural'...

OP posts:
Semster · 19/06/2018 14:27

Thanks for that very helpful link A4710Rider. It explains clearly that this is a policy choice by Trump, not a law that they absolutely must abide by, and nicely illustrates exactly what I was saying about it being a choice of how to implement the law.

From your article:

"Despite Mr Trump’s repeated assertions, there is no law – Democratic or otherwise – that mandates the separation of parents from their children, the Associated Press reported.

Under the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy, when a family is caught entering the US illegally, the parents now are routinely referred for criminal prosecution, even if they have few or no previous offences.

That typically means detention for adults, pending their trial. Under US protocol, if parents are jailed, their children are separated from them because the children are not charged with a crime.

Until the policy was announced in the spring, such families were usually referred for civil deportation proceedings, not requiring separation."

A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 14:38

Until the policy was announced in the spring, such families were usually referred for civil deportation proceedings, not requiring separation

It's obvious that Trump is fulfilling his promises whilst at same time sending out a very strong deterrence message.

UpstartCrow · 19/06/2018 14:39

What, giving children to traffickers is ''a strong message'' now?

A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 14:42

They are either being locked up in cages or given to traffickers, which one is it?

www.cnn.com/2018/05/29/us/immigration-refugee-child-missing-hhs-obama-photo-trnd/index.html

Semster · 19/06/2018 14:49

It's obvious that Trump is fulfilling his promises whilst at same time sending out a very strong deterrence message.

Have we moved past the 'he had no choice' and 'the law is the law' argument then?

Original poster
JerushaAbbott · 19/06/2018 14:58

@A4710Rider

They are either being locked up in cages or given to traffickers, which one is it?

It's quite possible that it's both - the children move on from the initial detention (holding?) centres (I'm avoiding using the word cage for the benefit of those people who are concerned about the semantics) to foster parents, and then there's a significant number (about 1,500 I believe) with whom the relevant authorities lose contact. It's perfectly possible that some of them might then fall into the hands of traffickers.

Snopes fact-check

I've not read anything to indicate that it's an intentional policy decision, or that children falling into the hands of traffickers is widespread, although maybe someone else could point me to a link.

The whole thing points to a lack of care, foresight, planning, compassion, moral purpose. Vulnerable children, be they unaccompanied minors, the victims of trafficking, or separated from their families at the border, should be looked after properly and not allowed to be 'lost'.

OP posts:
Grasslands · 19/06/2018 15:44

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1exA8ik5QI
The press conference explains the situation very well.

Grasslands · 19/06/2018 15:47

As per the homeland security press release the trafficking occurs prior to crossing the boarder.

Semster · 19/06/2018 15:53

The press conference explains the situation very well.

The briefing where Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen said she is 'not familiar' with the images of children in detention (which Mumsnetters have managed to view despite living 3000 miles away)? Where she made false claims including the claim that separated children are able to contact their parents by phone? Where she repeatedly referred to the children in custody as 'alien children'. Where she said that these children have to be locked up to keep Americans safe?

Grasslands · 19/06/2018 16:02

Yes, those “cages” really aren’t what people envision with that word are they?
What makes you think the phone call, food, education piece is false?

corythatwas · 19/06/2018 16:23

I also know in the U.K. if parents break the law and are arrested the children are separated from them.

breast-feeding babies are not torn from their mothers but able to stay with them in special mother-baby units unless mother is seen as a danger to the child

I also know that in the U.K. those same children might even be taken away from the parents forever by forced adoption

again, only if the parents are seen as unable to provide longterm care for some other reason than simply having broken the law

someone who goes to prison for a minor misdemeanour will not have their children forcibly adopted if otherwise a capable parent

these immigrants are choosing to not cross at the designated boarder points.

according to observers, designated crossing posts have been closed recently and families are turned away

changes in system means it is no longer possible to be processed before you reach the border

in other words, there aren't many alternatives to trying to cross the border

The children being separated are either unaccompanied or trafficked themselves as miniature human shield

pretty impressive to be able to breastfeed under those circumstances

Metoodear · 19/06/2018 16:24

You need to stop pearl clutching this was happening when Obama was in power
No fuss then

A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 16:27

You need to stop pearl clutching this was happening when Obama was in power

Obama actually imposed a travel ban from muslim countries during his tenure. No fuss made then either.

corythatwas · 19/06/2018 16:27

No, it wasn't. There were certainly issues re unaccompanied minors but no evidence of families being split in this way and babies taken from their mothers. If you can find even one instance, show it.

A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 16:28

Turkey has just about finished a massive 800KM wall to keep out illegal immigrants.

The left is surprisingly quiet about that

chicken2015 · 19/06/2018 16:29

So when obama was in power family were forced apart and children where rounded up? Or is it in last few months? Also even if he was doing it (he wasnt) is that justification for it happening today? Hitler was killing the jews so that's what should happen now, clearly not!