Children kept in cages - Texas

[JerushaAbbott]

This article in the Guardian today: Children in cages.

What can a non-US citizen do? I know there are undoubtedly worse atrocities happening somewhere in the world, but this article has shocked me.

When I was younger I was involved in anti-apartheid demos, CND, Greenham etc. Now I feel hopeless.

1. You would see the Cartel mess as being partly of the US’s own making, and by taking responsibility for that, it would help you frame better foreign policy going forward

No it wouldn't. The USA are partly at fault but their actions were understandable. There needs to be a change of FP but making out the USA to be the sole bad guy just won't wash and to be honest it just smacks of finger pointing for the sake of USA bashing.

2. It might stop the extent of economic, socia, political and military meddling the US indulges in Central and South America which contributes greatly to the political, social and economic instability in the area

Those countries have always been realatively poor, long before any USA involvement.

3. Decriminalisation/legalization within the US itself could limit the degree of violence within the drug trade

Now you're talking. What Mexico should also do is legalise drug manufacturing. This would mean the cartels wouldn't have to behave they way they behave. Mexico can't be held responsible for the USA's drug habit.

Rider The relevance of this is that:

1. The US needs to recognize that this mess is of it’s own making. It is not the victim. It needs to take responsibility for what it has done.
2. The US also needs to learn from it’s past actions.. This is not “Finger Pointing”, it is “Learning from History to Avoid Repeating the Same Mistakes”.

@THEsonofaBITCH

Thank you for clarifying. But the children aren't being treated humanely and their wellbeing isn't being prioritised. And families aren't being kept together.

Whatever Obama may or may not have done previously, treating vulnerable children in this way, and using them for political ends, cannot be justified.

I wish we didn't have to do any of this

We don't have to treat children in this way, and we shouldn't. Trump is choosing to.

I agree that the whole of one country cannot go onto another, however i believe everyone has right to try to make a better life themselves and their family. Just because i have been lucky to be born in to a country that is safe and developed that doesnt give me a right to not believe people from not safe and developed deserve to stay there. I hope if it was other was around they would agree. I find it weird that people from america are all immigrants themselves , i dont have an issue so much with the 'cages' as im not sure what would be better

"It’s not the separating from children from parents that’s novel or unprecedented."

In one sense this is true - children whose parents are imprisoned are generally separated from them for their own safety, unless the detention period is very short.

What's new - and indeed "novel" and "unprecedented" - is the criminalisation of asylum-seeking with the specific aim of separating families, because this is thought to have a deterrent value.

Hi JerushaAbbott. You either aren't reading my posts or purposefully misunderstanding. I said they aren't cages as that is a purposefully inflammatory description. I said that families shouldn't be split. I wish we didn't have to secure people who purposefully break the law but what option is there - just let anyone break the law whenever they feel like it? The kids are being treated humanely - food, shelter, healthcare - but are being torn from their families which is IMHO, wrong. I would like to fix the separation of families by keeping them too in a secure family section instead of separated but again they broke the law and must be secured and then returned from whence they came unless they get a sponsor in the USA like originally required. How does any of that make me Nazi like as other have tried to conflate?

Rider

1. You would see the Cartel mess as being partly of the US’s own making, and by taking responsibility for that, it would help you frame better foreign policy going forward Saying the US is partly responsible is not making the US the sole bad guy. Tell you what though, the US government is more responsible for this than any of those kids lying on the floor with foil blankets.
2. Those countries have always been relatively poor, long before any USA involvement But the US has destabilised governments in the area, been involved in funding criminal and paramilitary organizations in the area and enacted policies which have had a detrimental effect on countries in that area.
3. Mexico can't be held responsible for the USA's drug habit. Indeed not. But the US drug trade could. How about assets from drug trade seizures in the US be used to fund better facilities for asylum seekers. How about recognizing that the problems so many people in Central and South America are fleeing are partly the result of US policies? How about decriminalizing and taxing the drug trade in the US and using some of that revenue to help repair the damage done to Central and South American communities?

Also, why not shift some drug production to the US? Cuts the need for long distance transport, takes the suppliers closer to the market, keeps the habit in the family. It can become boutique and artisanal, a true craft. Would cut the feet out from under a lot of criminal gangs in the US too, and even create jobs at the same time. You could have Napa Valley style tours of cocaine plantations and marijuana fields, so it’s a boost for the tourist trade too.

"they aren't cages as that is a purposefully inflammatory description"

Why is using plain English inflammatory? What else would you call a metal enclosure designed to prevent people leaving it?

THEsonofaBITCH - if the Trump administration returned to the Obama administration's policy of classing attempting to cross the border as a misdemeanor rather than a felony, then there would be no need to separate families, because there would be no need to place the parents in federal detention facilities.

You keep saying 'they broke the law', but there are different ways of classing this 'law breaking', and the Trump administration is purposefully classing it a particular way so that they have leverage in the current immigration negotiations in Congress.

Mistigri, a secured facility. I guess by your definition prisons are cages and so too is your home when you lock the doors. However, I will go with the INS, if you want to call it a cage go right ahead, I will stick with a secured facility designed to make the people who broke the law and forced their incarceration by their own wilful actions as comfortable as humanely possible while dealing with the mess they have created for all. And yes, I have LEGALLY immigrated into several countries and though not easy found that it was well worth doing it properly.

Lapsed,

A full decriminalisation of drugs is the only real solution.

Hi THEsonofaBITCH

I really am reading your posts and I'm not intentionally misunderstanding you - I'm really interested in your views, and I think I understand them better now, although we disagree on a number of points.

I didn't compare you to the Nazis. I know you haven't said that I did, but I'd like to be really clear about that. My agreement with the second part of sleepingdragon's post was a general observation and absolutely not directed at you.

Hi JerushaAbbott, No worries, I didn't think you were one of the folks conflating the Nazi-like issue, just obviously lots are reading what everyone posts so I too addressed several posters in the single response. I actually think from reading we agree more than disagree. I don't think families should be split. I do think that the folks involved need to be secured and the system is for now the best available with limited resources. I would like to see the resources immediately increased to eliminate the separations.

I also know in the U.K. if parents break the law and are arrested the children are separated from them. I also know that in the U.K. those same children might even be taken away from the parents forever by forced adoption

Like good old Tommy Robinson eh?

Rider It would be a start. The US will also need to stop meddling in Central and South America, and start considering the impact of it’s policies on it’s neighbours before enacting those policies. Otherwise you’ll just cycle back round to unforeseen but foreseeable circumstances biting you on the bum again.

How i am to belivee immigration works is when you cross a boarder point you hand your selves in to be processed as a asylum seeker so u r not illegal you are a legal aaylum seeker. I have read the us is not allowing them to cross legally they are forcing them as illegal and separating the families.

Sound familiar?

Rider

And in the meantime, treat those children better. Understand that a lot of those people fleeing the region are fleeing political and social instability the US has had a hand in causing, they are not solely economic migrants. As a country, the US needs to own it’s role in destabilizing the region. And use that ownership as a mechanism for changing policy going forward and making amends for damage caused. Some kind of Marshall Plan or debt forgiveness.

THEsonofaBITCH have you fled violence and political persecution, fearing for your family's life?
If not I don't think your situation compares. There is no legal way for them to claim asylum because Trump shut those doors.

There is absolutely no need for this, there isn't suddenly a national emergency requiring the forecast separation and incarceration of children. This is a purely political decision because Trump is not getting his way with the wall.

Look familiar?
www.rsgsecurity.co.uk/rsg2000-security-window-bars.php

@chicken2015 these immigrants are choosing to not cross at the designated boarder points. These people are crossing at illegal points, being trafficked in trucks and dropped off. The children being separated are either unaccompanied or trafficked themselves as miniature human shield and not even related to the adults who are using them to gain sympathy. No doubts the children will be dumped ASAP if they were allowed.

OhYouBadBadKitte
Um, yes. Thank-you for asking.

I'm sorry to hear that and I hope your life is better now. Not all asylum seekers are able to seek asylum from where they live - many have to go to the border to do so, they have a legal right to do this.

There you go with the othering, the dehumanising Grassland.

Hi THEsonofaBITCH

We agree that families shouldn't be split - that's pretty significant.

I actually think from reading we agree more than disagree

Let's not get too carried away yet though! We may have some way to go before we reach that point :)