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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Children kept in cages - Texas

237 replies

JerushaAbbott · 18/06/2018 04:31

This article in the Guardian today: Children in cages.

What can a non-US citizen do? I know there are undoubtedly worse atrocities happening somewhere in the world, but this article has shocked me.

When I was younger I was involved in anti-apartheid demos, CND, Greenham etc. Now I feel hopeless.

OP posts:
gamerwidow · 19/06/2018 07:50

Also claiming asylum is a legal right these people are even necessarily behaving illegally. Of course you have the right to reject their claim if it’s invalid but you don’t rip away their basic human rights while you do it.

LapsedHumanist · 19/06/2018 07:50

gamer no human touch- that’s like the Romanian orphanages. It’s so emotionally damaging.

woman11017 · 19/06/2018 07:51

There are now plans to hold further children in 110 degree heat in tents in the desert
Shock They will die.

He's a common or garden fascist, and psychopath.

gamerwidow · 19/06/2018 09:04

www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5315484/listen-to-audio-of-children-separated-from-their-parents-inside-border-patrol-facilities

To those who support. Listen to these children crying for their parents and tell me again why you’re ok with this.

A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 09:09

Here's a thing, if you love your children don't put them through the trauma of trying to do something highly dangerous and extremely illegal.

gamerwidow · 19/06/2018 09:11

And again for those at the back claiming asylum is not illegal.

gamerwidow · 19/06/2018 09:13

Even if there are illegals doesnt make forcibly removing children from their families ok. The ends will never justify the means and if you think they do there is something seriously lacking in you.

nolongersurprised · 19/06/2018 09:15

Laws can and do change but kindness and basic humanity shouldn’t.

lostincake · 19/06/2018 09:22

Well said Charolais!

A4710Rider · 19/06/2018 09:30

And again for those at the back claiming asylum is not illegal

No it isn't, but these people aren't claiming asylum. You're being disingenuous. The news agencies calling it "Claiming Asylum" know they are telling lies.

lostincake · 19/06/2018 09:30

Europe doesn't want to end up like the US, believe me. We look at what your country is becoming with absolute horror.

Speak for yourself! I think Europe has become pretty horrific myself.

OohMavis · 19/06/2018 09:40

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW

So why aren't you lot throwing the cheesy wotsit in jail then?

Shadow666 · 19/06/2018 09:43

Asylum seekers can only claim asylum at certain ports of entry. Today, the WH admitted that some of these ports of entry had been refusing to accept asylum seekers. There have been suggestions that these ports of entry have been ordered not to accept asylum seekers in order to force these people to enter the US illegally so they can be processed as illegal immigrants instead.

The situation in Honduras has been hard since the election last year. People aren’t leaving for no reason.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 19/06/2018 09:44

I always wondered how low Trump supporters would go, how hard their hearts are, whether they saw others as human beings. Now we know.
Those of you supporting this, you have no soul.

TheClaws · 19/06/2018 09:48

Here's a thing, if you love your children don't put them through the trauma of trying to do something highly dangerous and extremely illegal

A4710Rider Have you considered that to do something highly dangerous and illegal with your children must be an extreme action? One that isn’t taken lightly, but with the love of your children in your heart as you wish for a better future for them - one without violence and poverty.

nancy75 · 19/06/2018 10:01

I would like to know how the bible bashing Trump supporters square this with their Christian beliefs that are oh so important to them?

How can anyone see this happening and think it's the right way to do things?

As for America not wanting to turn out like us - we have better healthcare, we have a longer life expectancy, we have better education, we don't send our kids to school to be shot and we don't keep kids in cages

America should hang it's head in shame

JerushaAbbott · 19/06/2018 10:07

Gosh, this has grown since I last checked in! I've had a good think about the points raised, including from posters who are broadly supportive of the policy, or who aren't explicitly against it. Everyone I know in the Real World is saying how shocking it is, so it's been interesting (and informative) to read an opposing view point.

Just a few follow-ups and further thoughts:

  • @battleax, by hoax, do you mean that it isn't happening at all, or that they're not in cages, but in something else, such as chain-link pens? If you believe it not to be happening at all, would you point me to a reputable source please?

On the subject of the title, I agree that it could be distressing, but then again some things just are. In hindsight, I'm more concerned that it might be triggering and so I shall refer to Mumsnet to see if they would prefer that I change it.

-@DN4GeekinDerby, my understanding is that the current situation arises from Trump's zero-tolerance policy which means that every migrant who crosses the border illegally – even those seeking asylum in the US – is subject to criminal prosecution.

I agree with you that the situation for many child migrants in the UK and the rest of Europe is also dreadful, at Yarl's Wood, in the camps in mainland Europe, on the streets of our cities, with homelessness, trafficking and other abuses. However, the fact that Thing A is wrong doesn't stop Thing B from also being wrong. It is also possible to be concerned about, and to want to do something to prevent, more than one thing at a time.

  • This seems to be the result of a purposeful and targeted decision designed as a deterrent to migration and as a means to get agreement to build the wall. Lots of references to this: Washington Post 15/6/18 - “The president has told folks that in lieu of the laws being fixed, he wants to use the enforcement mechanisms that we have,” a White House official said. “The thinking in the building is to force people to the table.”

National Public Radio transcript and again the Washington Post - White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly told NPR that the point was to keep people from trying to enter the country. “They’re coming here for a reason. And I sympathize with the reason,” he said. “But the laws are the laws. But a big name of the game is deterrence.” He added that separating children from parents “could be a tough deterrent — would be a tough deterrent.”

All backed up by Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Jeff Sessions quoting the Bible as justification.

I firmly believe that it is just wrong to treat children in this way, be they unaccompanied minors or separated from their families by the enforcement agencies. They may have adequate nutrition and some sort of shelter, but there seems to be no evidence that their emotional needs are being met or that their wellbeing is prioritised. The way in which leaders and governments treat the most vulnerable members of society is, I believe, indicative of their moral purpose. Trump appears to have none.

OP posts:
Kursk · 19/06/2018 10:34

Semster

Genuinely didn’t know about the busses around here, where are they??

THEsonofaBITCH · 19/06/2018 10:39

They aren't cages - just attention gathering headline. They are walls made of open fencing to keep groups separate but to allow plenty of visibility, air-flow, and communication. Not a fan of sperating the families but Obama did start it all off with a pledge to accept all children so thousands of kids were sent to illegally cross the boarders on their own resulting in lots of illegal kids (and some claiming to be kids who were over 18) and lots of abuse of those kids on their journey.

LeighaJ · 19/06/2018 10:40

Oh how commonplace, another America bashing thread, for me to now hide along with the rest. Grin

JerushaAbbott · 19/06/2018 10:41

@THEsonofaBITCH@, well that's all right then. Everything is justified.

OP posts:
JerushaAbbott · 19/06/2018 10:42

@THEsonofaBITCH, well that's all right then. Everything is justified.

Sorry everyone, am really bad at tagging.

OP posts:
Shadow666 · 19/06/2018 10:46

No one is bashing America. People are discussing a very specific point in political policy.

But, yes, go ahead and hide the thread. Better than listening to audio of small children crying out for their parents while being used a political pawns.

Stick your head in the sand if it makes you feel better.

sleepingdragons · 19/06/2018 10:48

The way in which leaders and governments treat the most vulnerable members of society is, I believe, indicative of their moral purpose. Trump appears to have none.

sleepingdragons · 19/06/2018 10:49

Oops, hit send to soon! I meant to say, simply:

The way in which leaders and governments treat the most vulnerable members of society is, I believe, indicative of their moral purpose. Trump appears to have none.

This ^

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