To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit now

[keyboardkate]

I took on the mantle to start another thread. If that is not allowed, Mods delete the thread, I am not sure of the protocol. But it certainly is an interesting discussion!

If allowed to stay as my OP, let's go!

So if the EU doesn’t want to be flexible like it wants the UK to be, then unfortunately it will have to bea no deal and the EU has let you down as much as the UK has.

Well if he does reject it they obviously don’t want to negotiate, If he rejects it then I’m afraid it’s a no deal and the EU Must want a no deal with the UK

@Rosstac

The UK should by now have understood that it is not in a negotiation.

The EU is a rules-based Union - every country abides by the same rules and countries outside of the Union cannot have the same, or better, conditions than Members have. Barnier will look at the checklist that the 27 countries have given him and May's latest proposal will fail at 'Item 1 - Four Freedoms'.

it’s a starting point as in any negotiations you work to an agreeable solution.

In any situation, the starting point is that you look at what you already have, look at what you might achieve (remembering that it takes two parties to negotiate) and what you stand to lose and then decide what to do.

The UK had the best deal with the largest and wealthiest trading bloc that any country could have - free and frictionless trade, opt-outs, a seat at the table, access to unified and shared standards for goods and services. Nothing that the UK Brexit team have come up with will get the UK remotely close to these benefits. At the same time, all 750 Agreements with the rest of the world become void on 29th March and will need to be renegotiated, but with the UK market now only 60 million people rather than 450 million , and with the UK desperate for a deal.

There is nothing about Brexit that will put the UK in a better situation than it was in two years ago. There is a very big risk that in 9 months time, the UK will be in a very bad economic situation, entirely self-inflicted.

So farewell then David Davies . Here we go. Red in tooth and claw . . .

So, hard Brexit looks more likely. Gove was obviously jockeying for position on Sunday knowing that Davis was in his way out. And Gove will resign when, shock horror, the EU doesn't agree to things that don't suit it in , like, a negotiation.

@Rosstac

Not at all, its the UK that chose to leave, you are behaving as if the EU kicked us out!
We knew the rules and regs, we helped draft them, its hardly the EUs fault that we have decided to ignore them.
Of course the paper might be a starting point but as DD has resigned, its unlikely this will ever get put to the EU.

Sings "Nobody said it was gonna be easy" .... er ... they did. And people fell for it.

Why do 27 other countries need to be flexible for one ? This one country voted to leave the EU, the other 27 said 'oh that's a shame, we would prefer it if you stayed, you can still stay if you change your mind'

This one country said 'No , we hate FOM , it is the cause of all our problems, all these people coming here'

The EU 'Ah , well you could always improve your criteria for entry ? What about all the people from the EU working in your NHS ?

The UK 'OK we might let the people who work in the NHS stay for now , but we are going to train our own doctors and nurses so we don't need yours in the future'

The EU ' that sounds like a very sensible plan , how are you going to do that ?

The UK ' Simples , we are going to make it much more expensive to for people to train as doctors and nurses '

The EU ' Okaaay ! so any more info on the not hard NI border ?'

The UK 'Go away we hate you, you need us more than we need you times infinity '

And you might wonder why I'm a prepper...

Hmm bellini. I might just pop out for a few tins of beans . . .

@longwayoff can't hurt. Don't tell anyone you have them, though

Well at least it’s nice to know that the EU doesn’t care about you remainers either, your beloved EU want to cause hardship and pain to you and you still worship the system, they don’t care about their EU citizens in this country leaving them in a awkward state, it just shows their true colours

"Well at least it’s nice to know that the EU doesn’t care about you remainers either, your beloved EU want to cause hardship and pain to you and you still worship the system, they don’t care about their EU citizens in this country leaving them in a awkward state, it just shows their true colours"

Drivel.

In what way do the EU not care? Because they are unwilling to give the UK all the benefits of membership with none of the responsibilities?

I've been waiting for this shit show to be blamed upon the EU, who are doing exactly what they said they would do during the referendum process ( ironic that all you brexit fans praise Trump for doing the same).

You won, get over it. Own your victory, and the shit you have landed as in together.

As we can see from their lack of negotiations they don’t want us to stay, so many small things they could have done to get the majority of the U.K. back onside, they choose not to, so we will all have to suffer together,

"As we can see from their lack of negotiations they don’t want us to stay, so many small things they could have done to get the majority of the U.K. back onside, they choose not to, so we will all have to suffer together,"

The UK haven't even put a proposal together for what they want.

The EU already offered the UK the best deal of any member nation, and we voted out.

The UK government, and those that voted for Brexit are responsible for this, not the EU.

You won, get over it.

so we will all have to suffer together,

Thanks for that. I won't be blaming the EU. I'll be blaming the people in the UK that made this happen.

David Cameron! I blame him!

Nope, Cameron campaigned to remain and gave good reasons. People chose not to believe him.

Although, like all Brexiteers, they have picked one or two things he said and taken it as gospel.

@Rosstac is don't expect my "beloved "EU to act in my interests. I expected my fellow UK citizens to. But they didn't. So feck 'em. I prep.
I am entitled to Irish citizenship and passport . As is my Dh. My dd can get it as well.

As we can see from their lack of negotiations they don’t want us to stay, so many small things they could have done to get the majority of the U.K. back onside, they choose not to, so we will all have to suffer together,

The EU has frequently hinted that the UK can remain a member, but only on EU terms - i.e. the same rules as everyone else follows.

Please list the 'small things' that the EU could have done to get the majority of the UK back onside.

"They don't want us to stay". What is this? Fecking Eastenders? If you voted leave please tell me what you expect the EU to be doing other than, what suits the EU. Why should they bend over for the UK? The vote was to Leave not to do a pouty flout and say it's not you it's me but actually it's you oh I don't know it's so tricky can we still have a shag?
You voted Leave? This is on you.

You won, get over it.

Shut up, you won.

Own your victory, you did this, what ever befalls the country after brexit you will be accountable, all 17.4 million of you.

People will blame you forever, not the EU, not remainers. This is on you.

Of course it's Cameron's fault topcat as there was no need to have the referendum in the first place! Or he should have put caveats into the referendum regarding turnout.

It was about trying to solve the divisions in the Tory party over Europe that have dogged the party for over 30 years. Anyone who thinks otherwise is foolish. To say they were afraid of UKIP was also nonsense because UKIP had NO MPs in the Commons. The likelihood of UKIP gaining sufficient seats at the next and subsequent three general elections - possibly ever - to have any impact was about as likely as Elvis coming back from the dead.

Cameron could have put caveats in true.

His hand was rather forced by the Back Bench Business committee prior to the 2015 election, they are the true drivers of Brexit.

But don't blame Cameron solely.

The BBB, Carswell. Farage, Gove, Johnson, the right wing press and all the Brexit voters have the biggest responsibility.

All the information was available before the vote, most of it is still accurate now.

But the same old tropes are repated.

What caveats could he put? The wording had to be agreed with the Electoral Commission. It had to be clear. It was. I voted Remain. If you voted Leave you have to take responsibility yourself not blame others.

A turnout caveat maybe?

One on the margin of victory?