Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

I think staying in a neglectful or 'loveless' marriage and putting the needs of your children first aren't mutually exclusive. I know plenty of people who have separated and ensured their children are happy and loved.

I am married and do wonder if sometimes people habe given up too easily on their relationships but then I remember that I have no idea what happens inside someone else's relationship.

LTB is an MN in-joke as well as advice.

And actually it's advice that is worth considering, even if only to be rejected, because the poster thinks the marriage worth another shot.

Family breakdown is what harms DC. This happens whether or not the breakdown leads to separation.

I am often challenged in MN because I think staying together for the DC can be worth it - but only when both adults see it as a wake-up call and whole heartedly work at resting a healthy relationship birth as a Cooke and as a family. Chugging along unhappy sounds pretty damned terribly for all involved. Put up and shut up is charter for abuse.

Totally disagree.

birth?? Cooke???

That was meant to be 'both as a couple'

(My keyboard needs more coffee)

Oh good. Another way to bash single parents.

I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them?

Parents are people too. Not martyrs. I didn’t want - at 32 - to give up my sexual life. My ex and I had slipped into a siblings type relationship.

I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?

I would hazard a guess if they’re having messy divorces there’s more to it than “just falling out of love”

Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

I don’t want my DD to think it’s ok to settle for less than she wants.

We separated because we’d “fallen out of love” and we took the step to do so before it caused resentment and arguments. We’re still dear friends, co-parent vey successfully. DD has two happy secure homes, a lovely step mum and a wide range of extended family.

That’s not worse than two parents who don’t love each other any more.

LTB is a standard Mumsnet joke.

I don’t agree with put up and shut up, happy parents make happy kids however people seem to consider LTB for everything. I often think did this couple really think about their vows when they were making them if they are willing to consider divorce first?

I am divorced from a loveless marriage and remarrried again.
I am glad we separated when we did. We did it before we hated each and that helped because it didn’t become messy. Had we stayed together bitterness and resentment and possibly one of us having an affair are likely scenarios and we would still have ended up divorced further down the line but unable to be in the same room as each other.
As it turned out exh has been away for weekends with current dh, the dc and me. Exh comes to stay at our house because we don’t live close anymore and the children get to see a good example of what can happen after divorce.
It may seem to you that we put our happiness first but would it really have been better for the dc to grow up in a house with two people that really didn’t want to spend any time together anymore? Or two people that ended up hating each other because we had stayed together?

Being in a "relationship" where respect and affection is lost and replaced by contempt and indifference is damaging to all.

It surprises me how much people seem to believe that going through the motions and pretending is a passable substitute for the real thing. It really really isn't and the people who suffer the worst consequences are those who are brought up in fake environments where everyone hides their feelings and carries on in spite of obvious problems. That is a massive headfuck for children and leads to endless issues around self worth as an adult. In fact I'd argue that lying and pretending have a detrimental effect that's equal to or worse than abuse.

My parents were like that. My mum talked about leaving quite often, but never did. While they didn't scream at one another or hate one another, they squabbled a lot. When I was in my 30s Thety did split up. While I was upset at the time, I think that they are much better apart. They're actually good friends now. Their marriage was not one I'd want for myself, so no I don't think it's a good idea.

I actually think 'staying together for the children' is a cowardly thing to do - using children to avoid dealing with your mistakes is very low, but framing it as being somehow more worthy and moral than people who look at the situation as it is and deal with it is especially abhorrent.

People are too quick to get married or have children (that old 'contraception failure' excuse) before they really know each other.

Taking your vows means nothing these days.

And yes, they put their happiness before their children's.

I agree to be honest. But I think every case is for the individual to decide.

OP I think you are unlikely to get much more than self-justidication from people on MN for this question. Most people I know who have separated/divorced are either unaware or unwilling to fully consider the impact of their relationship ending on their kids. It is comforting to pretend that kids can get over these things rather than the reality that it will be a fundamental influence on their lives just like anything else parents do.

My dad cheated on my mother the whole way through their marriage he had many children with other women so much so I have 5 siblings that were born in the 8 years my parents were married my own mother only had 2 girls

Would of been better if she had split from him it led to her trying to take her own life in front of me and a lot of domestic violence

Then when she finally got rid she beat us dysfunction leads to dysfunction so if somethings not working cutting losses when children are small is the best thing

Meh. I'm a child of divorced parents. Yes its shaped my life but i wouldn't say in a detrimental way. My mum did an excellent job and I am much happier knowing my parents didn't stay together for the children.

Much of the impact on children depends on how the parents handle the separation.

People are too quick to get married or have children (that old 'contraception failure' excuse) before they really know each other

Nope we didn’t. DD was planned and much wanted/

Taking your vows means nothing these days

Actually they did. We both promised to love and respect each other; we still do just in separate homes.

And yes, they put their happiness before their children's

If we’re unhappy our child is unhappy. If we’re happy we’re being the best parents we can be.

It is comforting to pretend that kids can get over these things rather than the reality that it will be a fundamental influence on their lives just like anything else parents do

Why does it have to be a negative influence? If handled sensitively it can be a completely positive experience.

I think of course if their is no cheating or anything nasty then you should try and make a go of things but the women who’s husband have had another child with somone else and the wife’s actually think they could make it work are living in a dream world

Almost a TAAT, fancy that.

Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship

Just the message I want to teach my kids. Don't strive for the best..... just plod along.

My argument is that it is that the alternative to staying together for the sake of the kids is not necessarily going to be better and may even be worse for kids and even oneself.
It’s good to hear from those who have left and have moved on to happier lives..... but I suspect there will be people for whom it has definitely not worked like that- and those are not the people we will get to hear from.
Certainly irl, with friends and family members I don’t feel that the people I know who are have gone through divorces are any better off with a few exceptions
And to the PP who said those going through messy divorces must have had more serious problems- well I think the actual process of divorce has started a lot of the damage as people have become bitter, started to use the kids as pawns etc etc

I don’t believe happy parents mean happy children. At all.

I’m not saying parents should be miserable but I do think it’s silly to suggest that if you are happy your children automatically will be.

I'm divorced and my kids are fine. In fact I think they've been happier since we split up.

I’m not saying parents should be miserable but I do think it’s silly to suggest that if you are happy your children automatically will be

Has anyone suggested that? Apologies if I have missed it.

On the other had my dh parents his dad cheated loads women even turned up at the house and they didn’t divorce

However my husband said their child hood was poised they lost respect for their father and mother as she would lie to cover up his affirs even when they knew the truth and felt quite firmly she stayed for the status (fil is very well off)