Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

From my own experience, I probably would have divorced DH years ago, if my own parents hadn't divorced very acrimoniously which I meant I had no further contact with my father from the age of about 8, and I was the veritable 'daddy's girl' because my mother was horrible up to that point.

I could never run the risk that DH would abandon our DC like he did.

DH and I have been through things that would have broken most relationships (not cheating/violence etc - loss of a child, financial ruin, SN child, my MH when I was in therapy for childhood sexual abuse and my mother's abuse) and have hated each other at times so I am massively thankful in a twisted kind of way that my parents divorce made me never give up for our DC sake. I've never wanted to be with anyone else. Our DC have heard us arguing and have been aware when we were struggling. I hope we've modelled to them that relationships are complex and go through bad times and good times. You don't chuck in the towel when you are both your kids 'home' because the good times happen less.

My parents stayed together for the children initially and then got stuck together when my Mother developed a life limiting condition. She died 5years ago.

I am damaged by growing up in that household. I have two siblings yet as adults only one of us is in a long term relationship.
None of us have children.

My mother's sister however got divorced which was a huge family scandal and her ex was a bit of a shit. She remarried when my cousins were in secondary school. My cousin's are parents and have externally functional marriages themselves.

Children are damaged by family breakdown. The divorce itself doesn't need to be damaging and can actually be restorative.

My husband was so rarely part of family life (by his own choice) that I had to point out to my DC that he had moved out.

Lives are not black and white. There are not two types of people, some graciously accepting a slightly boring but happy marriage for the kids and the rest selfish divorcees looking for the nearest chandeliers!

I get along now with a man that treated me poorly for years because I have to, because I want damage limitation for my children and because I do put them first.

Yes divorce has massive impact on children and so does living in a truly unhappy home. Like I said, as the adult I had to take the more positive choice out of two crap options, if a third choice of an average marriage had been on the table I would have taken that.

I think it is very rare that in a marriage that was unhappy enough to split from, the divorced parents can suddenly get along and co parent happily

We weren’t desperately unhappy. We both wanted more. We took the decision to split before the situation got worse, before it became acrimonious.

Like BitchQueen we didn’t love each other as a couple any more, we didn’t have sex, we lived separate lives in the same house. We were in effect housemates. We sacrificed what was merely the outward trappings of a marriage in order to save the amicability in our relationship which was absolutely the best thing to do for our child.

Wannabe- that’s a very good point
Not modelling anything less than a good relationship to children is often given as a reason to leave a marriage

But what about modelling patience, perseverance, sticking through the difficult times in relationships, not giving up easily etc?

@lesemajeste we were kids when we got together. I married him when I was 21 and I knew instantly it was a mistake. I rushed into things because I wanted a "perfect life" of marriage and children. I was silly and naive. I was unhappy before I even fell pregnant and I wanted to leave but I was too cowardly. DS was actually the person who gave me the strength to leave. It wasn't after having a baby that we fell out of lust and love, it was before that.

But what about modelling patience, perseverance, sticking through the difficult times in relationships, not giving up easily etc?

To model those the child has to be aware of the bad times though. I’d rather my child wasn’t.

I don’t think I modelled anything other than choice.

FWIW I am also actually a child of divorced parents and haven't seen my father since I was 11 years old. Doesn't bother me at all, I don't even think about him much.

What strikes me most about this thread is there is no possibility for absolutes when dealing with human emotions!

And after you modelled all of that for years and years and got nothing but cruelty back?

Is it ok to then model to your daughters that boundaries are healthy and partnerships should be equal??

The marriage counselor we went to see actually told my husband to leave the sessions and then turned to me and said "it's ok, you can stop now".

Honestly, I am shocked by the naivety on this thread. Sometimes the very best thing you can do for everyone is to just make it stop.

Surely bad times are a part of life though? As are good times?
It’s unrealistic to pretend otherwise

My friends dad walked out when she was 16. Hardly affected her at all but her sister ( who was 13) was very affected by the lack of contact. I suppose a lot depends on the person and their personality as well.

But what about modelling patience, perseverance, sticking through the difficult times in relationships, not giving up easily etc?

All this can’t be modelled outwith marriage?

Surely bad times are a part of life though? As are good times?
It’s unrealistic to pretend otherwise

We didn’t get to bad times so we weren’t pretending otherwise

It wasn’t bad, no abuse or infidelity. It just wasn’t enough. And I wasn’t prepared to plod along, I think life should be so much more.

It's not a popular view but I mainly agree although I do think there has to be mutual respect at least or you run the risk of showing a bad example of a relationship.
I also think that people forget that long relationships have ups and downs and sometimes you need to weather the storms together without giving up.
On the whole of course it's better for children to have their parents together but I never assume I know everything about others relationships so would only ever support someone who felt they needed to end their marriage as I don't think it's a decision people make lightly.

Bad times being are part of life is different to life being an unrelenting bad time.

My parents have a difficult marriage to say the least but have stayed together so I guess they would be judged as a 'success'.

I saw many unhealthy, unhappy things in that marriage growing up and it totally messed up my understanding of what is acceptable in a relationship and what I could expect for myself.

My parents staying together certainly contributed to my failure to leave my husband years earlier when I should have.

And after you modelled all of that for years and years and got nothing but cruelty back?

Obviously that’s a case for divorce, but I don’t think that’s the sort of thing the OP was talking about.

bitchqueen, I get that. If there was nothing there in the first place there can’t be anything to save.

An unrelentingly bad situation is not what I meant when I was talking about good and bad times

But what about modelling patience, perseverance, sticking through the difficult times in relationships, not giving up easily etc?

People don't just get divorced/break up at the drop of a hat though do they? There's usually been months or even years of perserverance, patience and difficult times before it gets to the point of splitting.

Thankfully, my own mother (twice divorced) always told me never to stay with a man for money or security and to make damn sure I created my own.

Obviously if there is abuse of any kind then ending the marriage is essential. I can also understand that a betrayal such as adultery, debt etc would end a marriage. However I do think that if it is a matter of the spark dying or something similar than as a married couple and especially if children are involved then you have a duty to regularly see a marriage counsellor and/or sex therapist for at least six months and really try to fix things before ending a marriage.

The most up to date research actually shows that it's not marriage breakup that's detrimental but the behaviour of the parents during that time, to each other, and the children.

So those children who's parents don't slag each other off, fight & argue in front of them and can maintain regular contact actually do very well.
Likely better than those living with parents who don't want to be together

Yogaqueen I understand that, but I think some messages can be quite damaging to people in bad relationships. Marriage is supposed to be hard work, life isn't easy, try harder etc.

I actually think it's a good thing for all involved to understand that they have a choice.

Define ‘unrelentingly bad situation’

My ex had an affair for 2 years before finally leaving me. I don’t think, by the very fact it took him 2 years to leave, our marriage was unrelentingly bad. I am pretty sure, however, he would argue that he only started an affair at the point it was unrelentingly bad and that the affair ensured he stayed for that bit longer.

Either way, the marriage was over. Endless agonising on how long is long enough makes it not the case.

Haven't read the full thread but from my prospective both my dcs dad's cheated on me.
There is not a chance I was allowing them to stay. They chose to spoil the family unit by cheating and I feel no guilt about it

@osopolar and what about those who can't afford it? Only on MN do people always have the spare money for private counselling.