Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

People don't just get divorced/break up at the drop of a hat though do they? There's usually been months or even years of perserverance, patience and difficult times before it gets to the point of splitting.

I think that’s kind of the point though, some people do get divorced at the drop of a hat and don’t put in the effort to save it and realise it’s hopeless.

Surely it is cheaper than divorce Queen and having to fund two homes?

This discussion can easily lose nuance and fall into extremes on either side. I think it comes down to what you believe marriage is, and how committed you are to the ^^institution of marriage.

Yes, I don't believe children benefit from seeing their parents stay together in a volatile and conflict-filled marriage. Yes, I don't believe that if you are desperately unhappy that you should stay in a marriage for the sake of children. But I don't necessarily think it is truthful to say that divorce is a positive experience for children and I do think that the grass isn't always greener. It is a complex issue.

And relate charge based on income, they want their services to be available to everyone and will work out affordability with you.

I think that’s kind of the point though, some people do get divorced at the drop of a hat and don’t put in the effort to save it and realise it’s hopeless

I think anyone has been through a divorce would tell you that this is utter rubbish. You can’t possibly know what goes on behind closed doors and then again within people’s minds. A seemingly easy, drop of a hat decision could be months, years in the making. How would you ever know?

I don't know of a single situation where a marriage and family home was broken up at the drop of a hat, just not in my experience at all.

I am 50.
My parents split up when I was 10. I am still paying for their need for happiness. But I suspect it has more to dow tiht the way the split happened than the actual split itself.
I went away with my mum to stay with my Grandparents, perfectly normal, but while we were away my mum told me they were splitting up. The way she siad it made me feel it was my fault. We went from my Grandparents to the new house. I only went back home for sporadic weekends with my Dad.
To this day I feel rootless.
I had no clue it was not a happy marriage. I did not pick up on the misery my mum claims she felt. I did not witness the emotional abuse she says happened, it was never something my dad did to me.
I know my Dad is an astoundingly difficult man - we now realise he is an undxed Aspie - but my mum is herself astoundingly difficult, she very emotionall High Maintainance!
I ahve spent my life feeling responsible for my Mum's emotional happiness. I don't believe I benefited one jot from their long and protracted divorce (Catholics.......) I am still angry about it today, 40 years on.

I lost everything and was plummeted into a massive shitstorm of crap that was the relationship my mum then had with a much older man which ended in disaster in the middle of my A Levels.
I am hugely resentful and yes, actually, I do believe the pair of them should have got their heads out fo their arses and thought about the long term effect on me. I believe they were spectaculalrly selfish.
But I am not my mother. I believe she felt she was being emotionally abused. I try to understand why she felt she needed to leave.
But........

@osopolar I guess it depends on the individual circumstances. My divorce cost £200 as we didn't have any joint assets (not homeowners and never shared bank accounts) and it was all amicable. But I can't stand the idea of a stranger telling me how to improve my relationship so counselling would never have been an option for me. Guess that's why I'm divorced.

I think it's really important for the adults to act like adults when going through a divorce. If a parent chooses to walk away from a child after a divorce then they were never a good parent to start with.

You can’t possibly know what goes on behind closed doors and then again within people’s minds. A seemingly easy, drop of a hat decision could be months, years in the making. How would you ever know?

Well neither can you then?

I do know people who’ve made out of the blue decisions about ‘not being in love anymore, just like siblings’ etc and they have talked to me about it.

Interestingly these have also usually turned into the nightmare ex husband/wife who can’t let go and excludes new partners from family events and do facebook posts about ‘Mum and Dad’ together of the ilk frequently complained about on here by new partners.

I'm sorry jeff that's sounds horrendous

Interestingly these have also usually turned into the nightmare ex husband/wife who can’t let go and excludes new partners from family events and do facebook posts about ‘Mum and Dad’ together of the ilk frequently complained about on here by new partners

I love my ex's new wife. She's far more suited to him than I ever was

My parents split very badly when I was 13. It nearly destroyed my sister and I. I've had many issues forming relationships myself, and it took years to come to terms with both parents' behaviour. I love them both, and see them regularly but it's not a normal parent/child relationship because I've never truly forgiven them for what they did to each other and my sister and I.

I made a vow when I married DH that I'd never put my kids what I went through. We've had some utterly bad times, and at one point thought we couldn't save our marriage but we worked bloody hard and did.

Few children ever want their parents to separate, no matter how bad the relationship is.

I think there is a huge amount of generalizing in your post OP

I guess I would class as one of those parents but without you seeing behind closed doors you could never understand

Did I merrily swing my way out of my marriage without a Care for my children ? No

But...was there abuse or adultery ...also no

I tried for ten years gave everything I had, and that plodding you mentioned ...years of it

The reality is not a safe staid unexciting life...its far more toxic.

I was modelling to my DC to settle...for no-one to be particularly happy, for them to see no emotion and no discussion. That the extent of a happy marriage was parents who didn't hate each other but could barely be bothered to look at each other, to have any conversation beyond whether we needed milk

They also saw a father who whilst a good man simply came in and sat in front of the tv, with a mother who ran the house and kept our heads above water. The atmosphere was oppressive, awful. There was no screaming or shouting, we didn't argue or bicker we just stopped caring. We managed to take it sometimes but frankly my DC are not stupid and it became exactly that...fake

I started to realise this couldn't continue and I remember every day for a month at least sobbing convulsively in my car on my way home from work at the thought that I was that vile to consider talking to Exdh about it. That I could even consider breaking my children's home
Because that was the only time I could risk being emotional that they couldn't see

Meals were eaten in silence because no-one had anything to say

This was after trying and talking and trying

I stopped sleeping in terror at the thought if ruining their lives

I begged my Exdh to try...he always agreed and was a kind man...but nothing...literally nothing

The boys were listless and quiet ...it was like being in a mausoleum

I remember going for a run one night stopping and sitting in a pavement shaking and sobbing at the life they had

We lived in a three bed semi in a nice area and it all appeared to be perfect

But it wasn't

So after ten years, three years of doing everything to make a happy home again once it had gone bad and months of tearing myself apart I talked to EXDH who agreed having gone through the same

Easy? No ...no it's not easy. I haven't even touched in the guilt , the fear, the transition

But with all that....it would have been so so much worse to continue. To have brought my children up with the belief that that's what love looked like, that possibly the most important relationship of your life other than your children should be so oppressive and in loving. Far worse

I understand you have your views but please think...i didn't end my marriage for fun or kicks or for somethi g better I did it for my children (not that in the rest of my breathu g days will they ever hear that or ever have)

I have a new DP (known for years well trusted and vetted before being within ten miles of my dc) and you know what they hear now in their home? Laughter...games, argued fun debates about dinosaurs. The biggest issue we have in relationships in our house is who caught the last butterfly in the elephant game or which train to take to bed

We a rent perfect but this is what they know love is

That's worth it for them to feel and see happiness...not just existence

(Apologies for the essay)

I was reading something about Diana and Charles the other day, it was the Tina Brown book. Apparently everybody around them thought that if Camilla had pissed off they could have sorted it out. I suppose that’s different with the cheating on both sides, but it does go to show an unwillingness to change and put the marriage first kills it. Although I guess that becomes the reason then....

I've been married for 26 years, we were together for 7 years before we wed and had more than our fair share of life challenges.

People rush into marriage too quickly imo. And into having children. Having kids with someone is way more of a commitment than getting married, you will have to have a relationship, on some level, with this person for the rest of your life.

Marriage is so much more than the dress, the day. And I don't buy the amount of contraception failing stories either.

Here is my situation, so these are my views so I am not suggesting others are wrong.

My exH and I have one child together. I decided to end the marriage as I wasn’t in love with him any longer. I love my exH and I don’t wish him any harm, however he isn’t “my person”. My exH did not want the marriage to end.

We co parent fantasticaly and I believe he is an excellent father - I have no regrets. Our child is well adjusted, it was only last week my child told me proudly he had been supporting a friend at school who’s parents have recently decided to separate and apply for a divorce. My child is 10.

I got re married 16 months ago and my DH has 3 children with his exW. Well, this is a different story altogether. The exW has used the children as weapons to hurt DH for leaving. Even though DH and his exW marriage ended 4 years ago the exW hasn’t been able to accept or move on and appears to be caught up in bitterness. My exH could of done the same. If my exH had I don’t believe our child would be the person he is today. My DH children sadly have suffered with all of them needing extra support via therapy,one of them is still receiving counselling via nurturing clubs at school.

I personally believe reasonable behaviour is required from all adults if not serious physcholgical harm will occur to the children. However if one adult behavioural shows unreasonable behaviour it’s clear why the other person left.

So overall no, you should not stay in a loveless relationship/marriage because of children.

I was glad my parents divorced I have good individual relationships with them both.

It's crazy to me that everyday i read these 'my horrible exh did this and that, using kids as a weapon, not paying maintenance' etc and most people on this thread are now suddenly all for divorce, as long as the parents are happy. Well after reading endless exh threads, not many seem like very amicable splits and imo this is very damaging for the kids. In reality most divorces don't end well, usually the H being unreasonable and controlling, but very few end well.

Well after reading endless exh threads, not many seem like very amicable splits and imo this is very damaging for the kids. In reality most divorces don't end well, usually the H being unreasonable and controlling, but very few end well

Every single post of mine on MN about my ex would be positive

That's great and bow it should be. But I'm sure you are in the minority. Not a single divorced person I know has had a good split and never though of their children after and how all the arguments affect them. Such a shame more can't be like yours.

I can't describe the sense of immense relief I had when my parents FINALLy split up after 30 years of mutual contempt. Seeing my mother happy and loved, for the first time in her life, age 52, was amazing. It took me years of therapy to be able to have a remotely healthy relationship, because my model for marriage was two people who never hugged or held hands, who ignored each other most of the time, who were so estranged that they couldn't even bear to go on family holidays together, so one always stayed home. I wish more people had the courage (and the financial freedom) to split up.

I don't know anyone who's divorced on a whim, or because of a vague sense of dissatisfaction, or without thinking through the consequences very, very thoroughly, so I'm a bit puzzled by the idea that this is commonplace.

I don’t suppose you know what effects you have on your kids until you ask them as adults.
Many splits are successful and balanced, but you need to ask the kids about it really.

My parents divorced and I fundamentally believe it did me absolutely no harm at all. I have four parents who all want the best for me (both parents remarried before I was 10), there was no animosity because there was no affair (a loveless marriage is surely at risk of an affair and subsequent difficult separation). My parents always communicated, never used my sister or me as weapons or badmouthed the other, and gave me the confidence to believe that everyone has the right to a happy marriage and successful relationship, which surely is a good and healthy ambition in life.

DH's parents stayed together 'for the kids' and their marriage ended in an acrimonious divorce when he was 18, with bad mouthing, parents turning up on his doorstep at university in hysterics and general misery all round, on top of a difficult childhood where he had to play go between and put up with constant low level tension.

I know which of us was more negatively affected.

Jacques Hammer- you keep talking about your own experience. You can’t use that to make general assumptions surely?
I suspect that you are in the fortunate minority due to your specific set of circumstances and yes, a mature attitude to it all both on your part and your ex

But sadly that’s not the story for an awful lot of people

UmmMe too- you make a good point. The Divorce often seems to result in some controlling, difficult behaviour in lots of people- both men and women

My mother decreed that I was 'fine' (my lifelong crippling OCD started after my father left because I felt unsafe with my mother), and that my father who was in my life until 7/8 (don't know as memories hazy and I wasn't ever to discuss him) was just a 'sperm donor' who meant nothing.

There are lots of less extreme cases than mine where the parents believe the kids haven't been affected and the kids don't realise how much they were until they have their own kids.

Not saying that is the parents actual fault but I think we should be honest that parental divorce is probably the single worst thing (after their deaths) that can happen to a child.