Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

What a crock of shit.
Until you have walked in the other persons shoes, you have no idea.
I suspect you are trying to justify something in your own life with this, frankly, stupid and Ill informed post.

Staying in an unhappy marriage for the children is so ridiculously stupid I can’t even find the words. If life after leaving an unhappy marriage continues to be unhappy - then you find ways to fix it, but your happiness affects the happiness of your children,, and should always be a strong consideration of choices made.

25 years in the classroom has shown me that the best thing for children is to have 2 parents in a committed relationship who love each other. The reality is that for some people that is not possible. I don't think couples should stay together for the sake of the kids, that's rarely a healthy environment for anyone. However, I have yet to meet a child who is unaffected by family breakup. It annoys me when parents say their children are unaffected by a split, but often it is making the best out of a bad situation.

Maybe society should look at the issues that affect children growing up in separated households face - especially the money issues and try and address that.

Such as ensuring that NRPs actually pay a decent amount of money to the upbringing of their children and make the time to be a part of their lives.

That would have an impact.

My parents had a really shit marriage. Zero affection, total lack of respect for each other. They never argued and we always did stuff as a family, but for some reason I just always knew that they didn’t really love each other like other mums and dads did.

They split within 6 months of me going off to uni, so they’d obviously been holding on until then. I wish they’d done it earlier as their relationship while I was growing up has definitely, insidiously done me damage.

Is that what you see when you look at my kids? Damaged? Broken?

Because my kids are far more than that. Perhaps rather than assuming they are one thing —to fit your stereotype— remember that they are who they are as a result of ALL their life’s experiences and that single or married, by far the majority of parents want what is best and move heaven and earth to do what is best.

If you can plod along then you can have an amicable breakup where the kids are not affected

in friends where the break up has occurred because they simply feel out of love/grow apart they are able to get along well for the children and they are pretty well adjusted

Messy divorces is something else

Divorce and the whole ltb scenario is often encouraged by people to validate their own decisions.
Rarely will you hear of the terrible impact divorce has on children, any time a study is quoted, the poster is shot down as being woman hating, being from the 50s etc.
On the other thread, the poster who mentioned their child continuously vomiting and crying themselves to sleep was completely ignored because nobody wants to hear the truth.
Other posters who were honest and eloquent again completely ignored.
Many people are doing whatever pleases them now, kids needs are disregarded as children need to be taught to be resilient and parents will convince themselves their kids are happy, they rarely are. Again its parents trying to convince themselves and others they made the right decision.
A non toxic atmosphere and a common goal between parents can and does work, honesty, integrity and kindness makes a marriage work the idea of constantly being 'in love' is a false one.

It annoys me when parents say their children are unaffected by a split, but often it is making the best out of a bad situation

Please don’t be. My DD is very open about her feelings surrounding our split and sees it as a positive thing.

My ex and I do love each other, we are committed in our relationship as parents. We’re just not married.

Why does it have to be a negative influence? If handled sensitively it can be a completely positive experience.

I wouldn't say my parents divorce was positive, of course i was upset when my sad left, but it has positively shaped my life. My mother taught me independence, resilience, strength, as well as all sorts of skills - financial, DIY etc that I'm sure I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

I can't say what my life would have been like if my parents had stayed together. It would be different but I'm not sure it would have been better.

I would have been happier as a child if my parents had split up.

My children are perfectly happy and not at all negatively impacted by our split.

I was very unhappy in my marriage but l never gave up trying or the hope that thing's would get better.

My STBXH would make fun of me in front of the boy's and no matter how many times l told him that it upset me, he would say l "can't take a joke". He would speak to me with little respect - that was noticed and commented on by other's whilst we were still together.

Anyway.... he left me a year ago for the OW as l was too awful to be with.

Yes the children were devestated and it's been a hard year for them emotionally (11 and 14yrs) but their Dad now takes them out places which he would never do with us, so l think their relationship has improved.

Even after finding out about the OW l didn't give up and wanted to work it out but he didn't.

So no, l don't think l gave up easily on my marriage

I bet some people think the best thing in life for children are 2 married parents, the man going to work, the wife staying at home, doing the childcare, cooking, school run etc and the parents staying together no matter what.

Life isn't like that rosy picture.

Please don’t be. My DD is very open about her feelings surrounding our split and sees it as a positive thing.

I'm not saying your split wasn't the best thing in your situation. But are you saying your DD is happy that you and ex-partner are not still in a happy committed relationship. Your relationship may still be positive, and that's fantastic.

I have a mixture of friends, one couple have done the' stay togethe'r bit and been miserable and a few have divorced and its worked out okay and been amicable.

But are you saying your DD is happy that you and ex-partner are not still in a happy committed relationship

I’m saying she’s absolutely happy with how things are. She was 7 when we split so whether she understands the nuances of “committed relationships” who knows. She certainly doesn’t wish we were still together as someone at school asked her and the teacher reported back how impressed they were with her maturity and response.

As I said we are committed to being the best parents we can be - we just don’t need to do that together.

I think it's impossible for people to be objective about their own situation. The desire to justify is too great. I know a couple who divorced recently, declaring the kids are 'fine'. The kids aren't fine. The kids are coping with what can't be altered. Given them the choice to have their parents back in the same house they'd take it.
Obviously nobody should stay in an abusive relationship. However marriage takes work. Maintaining respect, affection, interest and shared purpose over twenty, thirty, forty years will require sacrifice, tolerance and commitment. I don't think divorce is easy but neither is marriage and I think that it's under estimated very often just how much work marriage may be.

I am not sure if it is just a divorce/separation thing. Selflessness is not seen as a quality anymore.

I don't think you should stay in a loveless marriage no, no one should stay in one that is toxic or abusive or riddled with infidelity.

We are entirely responsible as parents to provide secure and loving upbringing, and that might mean sacrifice. If you are having a rocky few years, it is mostly always better to try and fix it and not walk out. Stress is a major contributor to marriage breakdown, as a society we could do with addressing this from top to bottom.

In the Netherlands huge volumes of parents are choosing to have less, and work part time. For them time off is more important than material things. We could start with looking at their ideals and deciding whether this might work for this country.

I thought the research showed that children do OK or even very well if a divorce is done in a collaborative way where both parents communicate with each other and don't fight too much, are both happier appart etc. (What a surprise 😮).

However, although I am sure that there are many examples of this type of divorce, it does seem likely that they are in the minority so I agree that divorces usually end up making the lives of the children involved much worse for a very long time. I know that is probably not a popular opinion given how many people are divorced at some point (me included) but I think it is probably true.

I am not really sure of the answer though because I also don't think staying in a marriage where either partner is miserable is great for anyone either.

We are entirely responsible as parents to provide secure and loving upbringing

That is perfectly possible for separated parents too.

What is not detrimental to children? Is the ideal a successful, loving, lifelong union of a couple in good health, with good parenting skills, in a safe, secure part of the developed world? Is it up to the children or the parents to decide what was detrimental to them? Or for society to judge whether it approves of the end result? What is the difference between something which shapes you and something which harms you? Are a couple who cannot manage the "ideal" relationship detrimental to their children regardless?! How do we decide levels of detriment? Finding the OP's blanket statement somewhat confusing, tbh, as every situation is different and individual to the family concerned.

My parents definitely had a loveless marriage for many, many years. They used to have absolutely screaming, blazing arguments really regularly. I would sit upstairs with my siblings listening to them and talking about what we would do if they got divorced, we were terrified of the prospect. Over time the arguments died down and they were able to continue living together as friends / companions / housemates until my mum died last year. I don't think it was a proper marriage for about the last 25 years. In all honesty I think it was better for us as children that they stuck it out, even though it clearly wasn't best for them and probably prevented them from finding proper love.

I'm trying to sort my marriage out at the moment and part of me wants to leave. My dc are adults but I still think it will hurt them and the family fall out will be terrible

Things have improved.

Also the financial situation would be awful.

I worked with a guy who left his wife and kids for another woman who also had kids.

One night he tucked his own kids into bed, the next night he was tucking the new woman's kids into bed. I was so sad for both sets of children and often wonder how they coped.

Another story. Looking around infant schools. One child saw his father looking around the school with his the kids of the new family.

*I worked with a guy who left his wife and kids for another woman who also had kids.

One night he tucked his own kids into bed, the next night he was tucking the new woman's kids into bed. I was so sad for both sets of children and often wonder how they coped.

Another story. Looking around infant schools. One child saw his father looking around the school with his the kids of the new family*

All very sad for the people involved. Obviously you appreciate that not everyone leaves relationships for other people.

"we are committed to being the best parents we can be" I think that's where the difference lies. My parents were just committed to hating each other and being utterly self-interested. It wasn't divorce that caused me harm it was my parent's behaviour. Living in that marriage was horrendous but living outwith it wasn't a whole lot better. I got to live with my mother's mh issues on my own and my father just went out and got a new family. It was them that damaged us not divorce.