Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

I do think that some people give up on marriage very quickly. The grass can seem greener on the other side. It's very rare that the lust and excitement of a new relationship will last.

I also agree with the pp that some people have children together far too quickly. I've seen this happen with lots of my friends and very few have lasted the distance.

I don't think anyone should stay in a abusive or genuinely unhappy relationship but I do think people need to be more realistic about what a long term relationship is actually like.

We also minimise the damage it does to our children as well imo.

And to the PP who said those going through messy divorces must have had more serious problems- well I think the actual process of divorce has started a lot of the damage as people have become bitter, started to use the kids as pawns etc etc

Which is foolish behaviour and if you’re a reasonable, respectful couple, that shouldn’t happen.

I think the if were unhappy our child is unhappy isn’t true Jacques ... not trying to be difficult.

I’ve been so unhappy so many times but my children don’t see it.

My in laws were very unhappily married but wouldn't get divorced - older generation. They stayed together until MiL died. Staying in their house for Christmas was always like walking on broken glass. It was always tense, awkward, lots of weird family rules to cope with the fact that Mum and Dad did not get along and had not done for years. Having been with DW for 10 years at this point, I can see how much that marriage messed her up.

A previous partner's parents were also unhappily married. Her mother used to complain to her about her father constantly - it was all very inappropriate. Again, really bad environment to grow up in.

I also know some very well adjusted and happy kids who's parents managed to divorce in an amicable and civilized fashion. I really don't think you can generalize.

@pinkelderflower or possibly they do see it and you’re not aware.

Either way I know if I’m unhappy I’m not the best parent I can be. Which is doing DD a disservice.

What a goady first post.

I hope not Jacques otherwise those of us with depression and so on are a bit fucked aren’t we!

It's not the case that happy coupled just decide one day to divorce and explode everything. By the time it gets to divorce there has usually been years of problems and divorce is the only way left to go. To suggest it's the easy way out is bizarre - people who suggest that must be pretty stupid.

I’ve been so unhappy so many times but my children don’t see it

That makes me really sad for you. I hope things are better now.

Yogaqueen5 Don’t agree if fact the messy divorce confirms why you can never go back

Dispite my dad affairs and resulting children he tried to make my pay tried to bankrupt her really fuck her over for leaving

With a lot of men their not really surprised your leaving it’s about the fact they can’t believe anyone would leave them as if your CF

My dad then engaged in long draw out custody battle he didn’t want to see me it was clear it was about still having control over my mum

Yogaqueen5

Would you stay in a loveless relationship where you were unhappy for the sake of your children?

Or can you not really answer that until you end up on such a situation?

Why does it have to be a negative influence? If handled sensitively it can be a completely positive experience.

Is that a parent or child's perspective? Are you seriously suggesting that a relationship breakdown is something that you would want a child to experience?

It’s life though Jacques, I have a life I never saw myself living and I’ve lost people I love and it’s hard.

I don’t moan really and I show a happy bright face to the world and I just regret in bed on my own at night but there’s a lot of sadness and it won’t go away.

But my children will never know.

I will stay with my DH unless he hits me, cheats or emotionally abuses me. None of which he will ever do because he is a decent man. And vice versa.

We can work through everything else.
We've had periods of unhappiness together and we stayed together, kept talking and came out the other side happy and in love together.
Marriage is bloody hard work.
Same as any relationship really.

People don't want to work hard, divorce is considered fashionable, people want the easy sparks of a new relationship.

If couples stay together just for the children then they need to ensure they maintain a good friendship and respect for each other, just as they would if they broke up. I don't believe in breaking up a family and I have come from a broken family, parents were toxic and hated each other. I think if you have an understanding to stay together until they aren't kids anymore then there's nothing wrong with that. I would never want to harm my kids for the sake of my own happiness. I would do anything for them. I don't believe divorce should be the first answer all the time like alot of people on MN think.

@Daddystepdaddy that is my DD’s experience - one which she is very vocal about both to us and to her friends/teachers. Of course nobody wants to go through a marriage breakdown. But it doesn’t need to be the death knell for a happy childhood. It can be a hugely positive thing for everyone involved as we have found.

Are you seriously suggesting that a relationship breakdown is something that you would want a child to experience

The child has often experienced a relationship breakdown if they are living in a house where the relationship has broken down.

Seeing their parents separate and then see the improvement in the new relationship the parents have after separation can be a good thing - certainly better than living in a house where the relationship has broken down.

I think the OP, whilst harsh, has a point. And I’m a divorced and remarried woman.
I know my marriage breakdown impacted negatively on my children who were 4 and 7 at the time of our split and has continued to cause them issues- remarriage on both sides, split birthdays, xmases, who goes to which show or parents night etc.. seeing stepkids being brought up by both parents. Etc.
Often I’ve felt guilty, and I know that I’d did and would have continued to accept a less than great relationship in order to keep the stability of marriage. And keep my vows. I believe I meant them when I made them, and I was deeply upset when my marriage was over as I couldnt save it alone and ultimately my exH left us and I couldn’t fix that.
But what I didn’t see was the damage that went on when my exH was there- the way he put me down affected both the kids and the older one in particular was very quiet and scared of doing anything badly as my ex was so critical. As they grew, my children would see I tried to teach them to value themselves and have high expectations of being treated well- but didn’t live that way myself. So that also wouldn’t have been positive for them.
Ultimately they are now much older and are lovely adults with good values and they respect me for my honesty and integrity now that I could not have had if I’d stayed married to their dad. Life isn’t perfect and kids gain resilience via difficult times... so as long as they are supported through those times they will come out the other side.

You're right,marriage is hard work and it shouldn't be seen as an easy option to divorce. Especially with kids involved.

People don't want to work hard, divorce is considered fashionable, people want the easy sparks of a new relationship

People want to be patronising though right

Do people seriously think if you decide to split for the reasons the OP outlined it is literally a one day decision? Or is it more likely it is talked about and worked through for a lengthy amount of time?

I think it’s fairly likely to be detrimental, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen.

One thing I don’t think people give enough thought to is the financial situation. My close friend is about 1 year post divorce- she was unhappy, it took her a couple of years to persuade him to agree to split. Family helped her buy him out the house. She is a part time charity worker trying to keep a large family home going. Material things aren’t important of course, but it’s hard when you can’t afford holidays, school trips, or the fun stuff your children want. I don’t think she understood the reality of Their split but she doesn’t regret it

Couples just have to take decisions that are right for them based on their own views. The short story on which the Bond film Quantum of Solace is based by Fleming said that when your quantum of solace in the marriage was zero that is when you part - when you are getting so little out of it it is unbearable that will be the end point. Some people never reach that point. My family are certainly all better off for our divorce after almost 20 years married.

As plenty of people have said above very few people rush to divorce. It tends to be a long process often over several years as you try to work things out and try to find compromises and then decide what is best for that family.

‘And yes, they put their happiness before their children's.’

Ugh. Yes so we should all stay in miserable, unsatisfying relationships because that’s what will make our children happy. great example to set. Don’t bother with happiness kids! Just spend the rest of your days ‘plodding along’.

The older I get, the more I think that the idea of being with one person for most of your life is just weird. Way to many people just accept their lot, even if their lot is shit.

Totally disagree, my godchilds parents probably could have put up and shut up, but jeez it made for a very very unhappy and sad house and environment to bring children up in, in fact it lead the youngest who tbh was a bit of a band aid baby, becoming very anxious because of the atmosphere in the house.

The parents were indifferent to each other, not emphused by very much, even play time with the kids was dull, or even excuses made not too, the three kids looked after themselves in terms of entertainment more often than not.

Then because the parents couldn't find any escape, they both had affairs, and now because of those affairs they really really hate each other, to the extent more often than not my friend has to talk to the children's lovely step mom.

But the kids very much enjoy spending time with both parents and their partners, they are so much happier than they were. Mum has started relaxing because dad isn't there to be the one that does the hobbies and fun things, so the kids interaction with her is less oh mum doesn't play/do enjoyable hobbies with us. With dad there's less rush to get out of the house and do stuff, it's become ok just to chill around the house it's a pleasent bonding time. The atomspere of both houses has changed from the one they shared together.

Many of us look back in hindsight and wish they'd split as friends, before the unholy mess of the affairs and so the children didn't endure the sad atomosphere of their parents going through the motions.

And I'm the child of divorced family, at first they were great friends we even went on holiday as a family when I was 6 (2years after the separation) so very much the oh couldn't you put up and shut up, until my step mom came along and convinced my dad my mom was a crap mom, (she wasn't and isn't, as I've got older I absolutely understand what brilliant mom she is) I'd still preferred them divorced than together, it was bad enough them screaming at each other every weekend at pick up/drop off than having to have it all the time.

My brother tells a story, of waking up, hearing mum and dad arguing one night turning over and thinking oh here we go again, only this night the arguing woke me, he at 6 years old got up, got me and we sat at the top of the stairs,eventually he took me back to his bed where our parents found us. No no child should live like that. If divorce means two happy involved parents, separately, rather than two parents who either argue the whole damn time or can't engage with the kids then surely divorce is better

Divorce is fashionable and the easy option?

Are you joking?! How many divorces have you been through?