Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

The NRP paying point- this is relevant to many people of course but IME relationships that break down between committed parents usually agree with 50:50 custody and therefore no maintenance payment from either parent. In a way this makes it doubly hard as both parents have to maintain houses big enough for the family on solo wages

YABU

My family had broken down long before my parents actually separated. Splitting up is the best thing my parents ever did!

A PP up thread alluded to me thinking like this due to something in my own life
Well yes of course isn’t that always the case?
So here it is- my own parents didn’t have a good relationship whilst I was growing up. After leaving home I spent much of my early adult life thinking they really should have split up, rather than put me and my siblings through the effects of their marriage. I felt that my mum should have left my dad, as he has always had a bit of a difficult personality. However now, with more life experience and a few more decades under my belt, I don’t feel like that anymore. Again, this is partly due to seeing the effects of divorce/separation on people around me and their children
My mum and dad are still together, still squabbling a lot of the time, and have weathered a lot of ups and downs. On balance I’m glad they’re still together and I think my mum is better off for it
This is something my younger self wouldn’t have been able to comprehend....
So yes- I grew up with parents who didn’t get along much of the time, and it will definitely have scarred me and my siblings in some ways. But I think the alternative would have been worse, and my teenage self would definitely have been been worse off with the instability of family breakdown and it would have had more long term effects on me I believe . It’s only with the wisdom of getting to my middle decades and getting more life experience that I can see this now

My mum and dad are still together, still squabbling a lot

What a way to spend a life

I think long marriages have bad years, boring years, moments where an alternative, romantic life seems possible. I know that this was the case for my parents and they kept going. It's not some great love affair but as their now grown up child, I'm grateful they did and I think they are.

would definitely have been been worse off with the instability of family breakdown

Is ‘instability’ a given in every case? Doesn’t marriage breakdown sometimes provide stability?

Personally, I think my children are more damaged by the assumptions society makes about them because their parents are divorced.

I think parents damage their children not the divorce/separation itself.
It's how you handle the situation that counts.
Unfortunately some people don't put their child first, they are selfish and we see lots of examples of this on here. Nrps not paying maintenance, not turning up to see their dc. Rp refusing to let the dc do nice things with the other parent etc etc.

Sometimes parents do not have a choice. They tolerate things for so long until they can't take anymore and simply have to leave.
You have no idea what happens behind closed doors. Plenty of people suffer abuse in silence. Abuse doesn't always involve having your bones broken and eyes blackened.

Although, my parents' scenario is a more gentle, affectionate eye roll sort. There's love there, just not a great love affair.

YABU
Its how the breakup is handled that effects the children.
Of course children are damaged by seeing very acrimonious breakups.

But personally I think children growing up having a loveless marriage modelled to them by adults is more damaging than having parents who separate but none the less remain respectful and caring to one another and parent well together.

I think it depends on the situation and the adults and children involved.

Because your children will not thank you for bringing them up with indifference and no affection between their parents. They will not appreciate your big gesture, as they remember a bland household where Mum and dad were seperate entities with little affection for each other. This martyring for the sake of the kids, will not give you well adjusted and thankful kids (necessarily) and being in a separated gone won’t give you maladjusted and emotionally unable children. They parents, either together or apart, are more important than throw it yourself on the fire and doing your duty to maintain an allegedly ‘normal’ but miserable home.

I honestly don't see how anyone can read the step-parenting board and deny that divorce can be detrimental to children. There are some great step-parents, but there are plenty of others who resent their step-children just for existing. No, it's not ideal for children to grow up with parents who are in a loveless marriage, but in many cases it's probably better than ending up in that sort of step-family.

I also think the part about "modelling healthy relationships" is a bit naive. IIRC, second marriages have higher divorce rates than first ones.

The thing is though the alternative isn’t usually love and happiness or divorce. It’s so common amongst parents of young children to just rub along annoying each other for years, and it’s not usually particularly happy or loving. It’s just the way it often goes through the stressful periods of life

@JacquesHammer
Why so defensive?

I’m not defensive on my behalf. But as a PP so wisely put it

Personally, I think my children are more damaged by the assumptions society makes about them because their parents are divorced

I stayed with my ex husband whilst my children grew up even though I was desperately unhappy believing it was better for the dc to have a stable home. I regret every one of those years I stayed tbh. I did the dc no favours and even though there were no arguments or anything like that and I thought I had put on a brave face the dc subconsciously knew anyway.
I showed them a terrible example of married life and successful relationships and I can't help but believe that that's why at 30, 29 and 25 none of them have any intention to ever marry or even live with somebody else even if they are all happy and independent individuals.
Exh and I are still friends, we still spend time as a family with the dc (two younger at 23 and 15 have autism) I'd say we are much better at showing our children how to be successful ex partners co parenting than we were at being married.
I'm happier, the dc are happy and settled, exh isn't, I don't think, but it was a bigger shift than I had seeing as he had been waited on hand and foot for thirty years (yes at 57 he had never cleaned a loo) I don't think staying in an unhappy marriage is ever the right thing to do for your children because they know however well you might think you hide it.

No way in hell would I have wanted my dd thinking that the relationship me and her father had was normal - iI’m glad he had an affair and left, at least now she has seen what a loving relationship is really like and I have broken the cycle of settling for unhappiness.
My dd walked on eggshells when we lived together, now she is a well balanced young lady who has confidence. If a break down is handled correctly with the children put first then it’s effects should be minimal - it’s all about how it is dealt with

It’s not true that children don’t pick up on unhappy parents.

Chidlren are also very good at normalising their own misery, you won’t see it as you’re wrapped up in trying to pretend everything’s fine. But put the children in a calm happy environment and you’ll be amazed at the difference in them.

One of my oldest friends divorced because she and her husband fell out of love. They tried everything to first fix their marriage they went to counselling (the marriage counsellor was unsettled at how nice and kind they were about each other), and in the end they agreed to split very amicably. Their child was much longed for and planned and born after years of marriage, their child is also happy and well adjusted because the parents are kind to each other and co-parent well.

I don’t know a single person who has divorced lightly.

Divorce is hell on wheels, emotionally, financially, mentally and physically.

Suggesting divorce is the ‘easy’ way out is insensitive and judgmental or you’re trying to justify staying in an unhappy marriage.

Yes a steady,loving respectful marriage is the gold standard. But, what about when you don't have that option?

Why is this being seen as a choice? Two people working makes a marriage succesful, it cannot be done when only one half of the partnership is working and the other never bothers.

I promise I tried and tried, dragged him to counselling twice and I compromised myself nearly into total obscurity. No movement from him, only got worse and worse.

My children were there in this situation, absorbing and watching. I have daughters and it wasnt in spite of them that I finally called an end to the marriage. My daughters gave me the strength to end it.

I could take being treated as a nothing by my husband but not watch him do it to them.

We are very lucky as we have stayed in the family home, schools and general life hasn't changed. My girls have a better life because their home is the sanctuary it should be.

They see their dad regularly, he is much better suited to being an attentive dad for a few hours and their relationship is better as they don't live with him and don't get to witness his general apathy to the boring side of parenting.

The idea that parents like me don't weigh up the consequences of these decisions deeply, often for years is laughable.

I have to deal with sole responsibility, all the work that raising two children on your own entails. I am tired and worried but I am proud of what I did, for all of us.

When you only have these choices you take the least bad option and work so hard to ensure a better life for your children.

I was going to say YABU because I don’t think it does kids good to be in a situation where they see their parents sniping at each other and are in a toxic atmosphere. But I’ve read through some of the replies on here and now I’m not so sure.

Long marriages do have times where you’re not madly in love with each other and the sex is a bit humdrum and you might not find them as attractive as you did. It goes up and down. I do think if you have children and you’re still in a warm and cordial relationship you really owe it to them to work hard to see if there is something salvageable or at least try and wait it out.

If you’re constantly aiming to be in a relationship where you are ‘in love’ and have an explosive sex life then the inevitable result is going to be serial monogamy and kids being dragged through a series of failing relationships. Showing your children that you ‘shouldn’t settle’ is not the only thing they are learning there. They will also be learning that other people and their feelings are of no value and that you should please yourself without worrying about the effect on people around you. That people you are there for your convenience and cast off at whim.

I don’t know where these people expect their relationships to go. I certainly don’t expect to be swinging off the chandeliers or shagging on the work top or to be in the passionate first stage of love in my 80s. I don’t expect my partner to be as attractive in his 60s or 80s as he was in his 20s and I am sure I won’t be either. My body isn’t the same after 3 kids for starters.

I also kind of worry from these responses that there are children out there who can’t speak to their parents if they struggle with splits because their parents are wrapped up in their own desires and are convinced everything is fine.

I don’t think people should be unhappy. But I’m not sure dragging your kids through some futile quest for perfection is going to be healthy either.

Plus, I think some of the reasons given for divorces would have a man hung drawn and quartered on here if they were given. Can you imagine? ‘I don’t find you attractive or want to have sex with you anymore, you’re like a sister. And staying with you would give the children the message that it’s okay to settle for something inferior.’

He’d be ripped to shreds.

Often people don’t know how either of these options are going to turn out in the long term when they make the decision. It may be that staying would have been the better outcome, in hindsight, but at the time you hope for more/better. And I think that that’s ok as a message for kids regardless of the actual outcome.. that you should aim to be happy, not settle for less than your own standards etc.. nobody knows how life turns out, but making decisions on how you hope/expect it to go is fine.

Think some of you may have misread my post?
I definitely do not think divorce is the easy option- it’s quite a hellish one in fact for everyone involved.
But I appreciate it is necessary sometimes

Of course divorce is hugely detrimental to children. One parent is generally absent, there will be upset that they will sense, they will see their parents have intimate relationships with other people who are strangers to them, their world will spin on its axis, etc. That can't be countered, they will feel that. Even if the marriage is deeply unhappy, before they get relief, their world will still be shattered. Kids are inherently selfish and just want both parents there, together as that's all they've known, they don't particularly care if they are unhappy.

The behaviour of the parents after the decision to split is what will cause the long term detriment. Parents will kid themselves that the kids are fine, kids will say they are because they 'have' to be.

I think it is very rare that in a marriage that was unhappy enough to split from, the divorced parents can suddenly get along and co parent happily.

@Wannabewonderwoman me and my exh get along brilliantly. The reason we divorced is that we married too young and ended up being more like friends, we didn't fancy each other any more. We don't dislike each other, we just fell out of love. No abuse, no affairs, no nastiness. And DS will not see me be in a relationship with anyone else as I don't like the idea of having another man in my son's life. So I will remain happily single.

DS was 10 months old when we split up. I am the RP and he goes on overnights to his dad's house. Because he was so young when it happened he doesn't know any different. So know, he's never known us both together.

I think divorce is probably harder for older children than younger ones. And dependent on the reasons for the divorce.

bitchqueen, with situations like yours it’s the sort of thing where I do wonder. You had a 10 mo child so it’s not like you hadn’t fancied each other for a long time!

I am fairly certain most couples with a newborn baby aren’t in the fancying each other like mad and passionately in love stage. I think most people (if in a decent relationship) would admit that stage in their relationship was tough, but brought them into a deepening partnership and friendship which underpinned all the rest of it and was enough to get them through the tough times.

I guess perhaps the flip side of people being able to leave awful relationships without stigma or difficulty is perhaps that what might have been blips or bad patches in the past is the end for a lot of people.