AIBU to think about just not going to DH's work party?

[rosesandflowers]

DH and I had a bit of a drama yesterday but thankfully that's all sorted. I've just received the invitation to one of the fancy company brunches they hold through the post. It's plus one but there's not much point in the plus ones being there.

As a general rule DH and I sit with his friendship circle inside work. I can see why he's friends with them; similar interests, lifestyles, upbringings, etc. especially as he spends lots of time with them at his job. But the truth is they're, as a general rule, awful. Condescending, narrow-minded, elitist ... not to mention they can be downright rude. DH will of course defend me if necessary but he can't do anything about the fact that I just genuinely think they're for the most part horrible people.

Generally DH will discuss work with his team so the spouses tend to socialise with each other. (One guy that DH works with in particular finds it hilarious if anyone not in the company tries to contribute or even follow the conversation. He takes some weird pleasure in asking their opinions if they seem to be listening and then laughing. It's weird if you ask me but we tend to not get involved in their discussion for that reason or even listen to it.)

As a general rule I don't get on with the spouses of the rest of his friends at all. The two husbands stick to each other very closely and generally don't talk to the wives. Most of the women are very different to me and often unkind. DH and I have a slightly different dynamic in our marriage as well which they love to pick at. They are mostly SAHM or SAHW like me but a couple have had modelling careers in the past I think. They don't really see the point in me having a job (I work from home) and are frequently rude about my career. The one woman I get on with has a real dislike for them and they dislike her back, which means I've become very isolated from the group and often on the receiving end of snipes/jabs. However her wife is on maternity leave and as such she won't be there.

DH knows I don't like his friends but doesn't really know the full situation when it comes to those I'm expected to hang out with. I'm not very involved with his job as it's quite difficult to really understand on the most part (or maybe I'm just thick when it comes to this stuff ) so he really enjoys seeing me in the context of his work setting. I tend to suck it up when events like this roll around because it is so important to him and to me that I'm supportive. However, with my usual friend not there I think it will be much more obvious that I don't get on with the others. I could do my best to remain involved but if they start making comments or just don't talk to me at all how am I supposed to?

AIBU to consider just telling DH I don't want to go and avoiding the whole event? I feel it will be awkward at best and DH will feel like he has to intervene if it gets bad, which could potentially disrupt his friendships and spoil his evening. On the other hand, I feel like I should at least make an effort, and I know he's going to be super excited about me going. Not to mention I'd feel bad causing another issue so close to our previous disagreement.

WWYD?

And their background is no excuse. DP is privately educated and Oxbridge. He's also a lawyer. And he's about as far from a sexist money obsessed pig that you can get.

but the OP chooses to be married to man who not only embraces this culture but manipulates his wife in a way which suggests he is as sexist as they culture we are all disgusted by. You either believe he is abusive and she is abused or she has the free will to stand up for herself and chooses not to. If she chooses not to she is complicit.

So, manipulative = misogynistic? He can definitely be a manipulative arse, but he isn't a misogynistic one.

The culture at his work place is fairly - well, "inclusive" and "familial", is how they put it. But that doesn't mean I'm either an abuse victim or an enabler. I can recognize that a spouse dinner causes problems (it isn't just wives that are expected, BTW) and still support my DH.

It makes him "happy" when you attend an event where you are treated so disparaging?

Not the being treated disparagingly part. Like I said it's hard for me to be very involved in his work because it sounds like gobbledegook to me. Some nights if he's working late we'll have dinner in his office and then he'll explain what he's currently doing to me. But even if I manage to grasp enough to have some input, it's still very little and quite infrequent.

As such, moments where I can be supportive mean a lot to him, and for the most part that's these brunches/dinners.

But being treated like shit comes hand in hand with your attendance doesn't it? If you've explained that you find their company toxic and unpleasant and he's witnessed the way you're treated why would he still want you to be subjected to it?

If his professional life really does require his attendance then why can't he go alone? Why is he more concerned about "appearance" than how you actually feel ?

But being treated like shit comes hand in hand with your attendance doesn't it?

Yes; but I think I've prioritised support for my DH over a bad evening. It should be much better now we've agreed on some protective measures.

If you've explained that you find their company toxic and unpleasant and he's witnessed the way you're treated why would he still want you to be subjected to it?

I'm going to find toxicity and unpleasantness wherever I go, and DH knows I can handle it because he used to be just the sort of twat I usually meet at these dinners Sometimes you have to prioritise things that mean you're not perfectly happy, if only for an evening.

If his professional life really does require his attendance then why can't he go alone? Why is he more concerned about "appearance" than how you actually feel ?

My attendance could also impact his professional life, as I've explained, which is why my appearance is important.

There needs to be a mindset change whereby employees stop thinking that spousal attendance could affect career promotions (although this doesn’t happen where I work (or I would never been promoted!)).

If women refused to attend or organize events it would be a small step in the right direction and a halt to the damage these attitudes are replicating in the workplace. My DD is at Uni - she has a strong sense of what is right and wrong so I’m comfortable that she won’t fall in this 1950’s acceptance of a women’s role.

These sort of attitudes to spouses appear to be contained to a particular type of workplace though.

Dh is a building site manager and I love attending his Christmas do. We all get hammered at the free bar and spend the evening dancing about like maniacs and setting the world to rights. roses you'll have to come next year

When I was single and lived in London you'd always get the groups of loaded men who worked on the stock markets in bars and pubs. Their attitude to women was horrendous- basically sex objects and loud derogatory jokes about women, strip clubs and hiring "brasses" was the norm. I've never heard anything like it.
I hate to say it but most of them were all boy public school arseholes.

The thing is op, you came on here and asked for our opinions which you have received in bucketloads. On the back of that, despite being unhappy about it and not looking forward to it, you're still going.

At the end of the day, these women will speak to you however they want so you'll just have to take it on the chin. I doubt a smart reply would work. I doubt the tinkly laugh will work either as they will just assume you are stupid.

I actually feel sorry that you have such a strong sense of duty to do something/support your DH in an environment/with people who are not in line with your values.

You're not Meghan Markle, are you?

Sometimes you have to prioritise things that mean you're not perfectly happy

If this is a two-way street, yes. What comparable, specific things does your DH do for you that fit this description?

What comparable, specific things does your DH do for you that fit this description?

Bear in mind that OP thinks this is a compromise:

DH and I have agreed he will sit next to me and I'll drive up separately, and he's going to make an effort to have a whole table conversation rather than two separate sides.

Her husband is going to 'make an effort' to speak to the women he's in the company of over dinner, including his wife who's his invited guest. That's his concession.

lostitintheearly90s I am bringing about change. You can't go in there as a wife and tell your DHs employer they need to change their ways.

I've taken a different approach which is working. DH was the best person to take on the role. The one women in a senior role wanted DH to take on the role because she said if it was her people wouldn't take it seriously. I think she was right.

DH has been in the role about 3 years now. It's been tough to make changes but he has accomplished stopping the use of prostitution during company events and banned company sponsored events at any venue where people are paid to take their clothes off. He is working at changing the graduate recruitment scheme and more importantly he is headhunting senior women into appropriate roles when they have headcount. So far the senior women recruited have been Polish, Canadian and American. In the new graduate scheme these women will be mentors to men and the women will be mentored by men and these senior women.

Most diversity officers would be working FT to accomplish this much in such a short time period. He doesn't have a dedicated team working for him on this. It's been 4-5 employees (women and men who want to see change) getting the changes through.

No I could have done nothing and gone with the flow. I could have spoken out and DH would have been ostracized. I could have stopped working when we had DC. Instead I've taken the harder path and can sleep at night knowing I've done the right thing and I've influenced my DH to take on a difficult role and do it well.

Me working really helped DH. Working at big4 I was on an audit and the partner was the diversity champion for the region. I told her what dH was up to, she was amazed, offering to share her experience and insights and I introduced them. That connection has been priceless. He has a mentor now who is helping him be a better leader.

So yeah if my embracing the wife events offends you I don't apologize. I've been able to influence people and change things for the better. If it hadn't been for me having a strong career and taking control of the wife events (the invitation used to say plus wife and I had it changed to plus significant other) there is no way DH would have ever been considered for the diversity officer role.

Jesus. Just so, so depressing.

So his compromise is that he will try to include you (and the other spouses) in the conversation ? Wow. How big of him. Jesus.

My DD is at Uni - she has a strong sense of what is right and wrong so I’m comfortable that she won’t fall in this 1950’s acceptance of a women’s role.

Implying that I have weak morals and have a 1950's view on women?

Spouses (not confined to just women) bring expected to go to events causes me problems, yes, but I think the toxic environment at DH's company is caused by the high concentration of arse holes, not familial inclusion in work events.

What comparable specific thing does your DH do for you that fit this description?

DH went through the very lengthy process of having his timetable modified because I wasn't happy with the amount of time we were spending together. He's also turned down jobs that would make the current (or a similar) timetable possible.

Like I said he does go to my work events. Not similar to his but I daresay he finds them somewhat dull.

And to clarify, while it might seem that I'm suffering more than DH in the work event compromise we have, they weren't chosen with the focus on a balance of misery. I wanted those conditions to make my experience better, not his worse.

Ha ha ha. This is now officially MN’s most batshit thread ever. Diversity officer of Big 4 firm super impressed by sales manager who does something that most companies did about 10 years ago. I mean, I know the US is super- regressive but even so. Sorry super but you need to up your game if you don’t want to go the same way as our good friend Art.

This is now officially MN’s most batshit thread ever.

Oh come on

There are definitely worse.

I think the toxic environment at DH's workplace is caused by the high concentration of arseholes

A pertinent point Let's not blame women for everything wrong with the world.

I can’t believe anyone being particularly impressed that a company has stopped its employees raping women as part of their employment.

he has accomplished stopping the use of prostitution during company events and banned company sponsored events at any venue where people are paid to take their clothes off

Fuck a duck ! I am this is still going down . I have been in industry for 18 years (think heavy industrial , PLC type client ) and this would be SO frowned upon even a decade ago .

Can I ask what sector he is in ?

I can’t believe anyone being particularly impressed that a company has stopped its employees raping women as part of their employment.

Dear God, where did that happen?

I was under the assumption that they were usually strippers/sex workers who had volunteered into the work under a contract at these company dinners.

In some countries sex work isn't illegal so it wasn't a banned activity according to the employee handbook. It is now.

Also DH was a sales manager about 15 years ago. Nothing wrong with that role but he has been promoted a few times since then. He is in the food industry. It's extremely male dominated at every stage from farm to table. Just look at chefs. Until the past 10-15 years there were very few women working in top kitchens. There are more now but it's nowhere near 50% of commercial kitchens being headed by a female chef.

roses I hear you and really feel for you. Just focus on it being one night and your DH is going to have to really make it up to you. Hopefully you can leave early. Would be terrible for you to have a headache come on from the red wine...

To be fair to Want2Be, it sounds like she and her H are making changes and (annoying though it is to those watching from outside) you have to move slowly for such changes to be effective. Go in with a burning zeal to turn the company culture upside down and you will get booted out in no time and they will carry on with their bullshit. Trying to make a company change via social media dogpiling won't work, either (that is much less effective than the young and self-righteous think, unless you're dealing with small companies which make a big deal out of their diversity and inclusivity - large organisations just ignore what they see as irrelevant yelling from unimportant people).

wow they sound like assholes

This is one of the most depressing threads