to say, about Kate Spade's apparent suicide?

[Standandwait]

... that there are two things I take away from this:

1. there are a lot of people out there who you think are just fine and should be so happy but just aren't... not only Kate Spade, what about Robin Williams? Be aware others may be fragile and try not to hurt them.

2. if you think you're worthless and a failure remember there are probably other people out there who admire you and wish they were like you. Don't kill yourself get help.

My friend is suicidal. She has a little girl the same age as my eldest son. I have a tight, cold feeling in my chest reading all these posts, terrified that she will go through with it, desperate to stop her, not knowing how.

Thank you @HopeMumsnet for the lovely compassionate post on here and for letting the thread stand, as it surely needs to.

To all those affected by suicide on this thread, sending love to you tonight. ♥️

People eithier don't want help or don't know who to ask or who to trust.

I think about sucide a few times a week, it probably started about 9 months agoit it wasn't knowledge it would devestate my parents I'd have possibly done it by now.
I've no kids, I'm single depressed and lonely.
No one knows the above about me and it's probably the first time I've wrote it down.

A lot of people who try or commit(obviously there are exceptions) aren't doing it because they are selfish they just want what ever is driving to it to end, or that they are ruining others lifes by existing, I'm not saying it's correct but most of the time it isn't selfish.

A close family member attempted suicide a couple of years ago but fortunately didn't succeed in his attempt. He was the last person I would ever have suspected would do something like that.
No one has a clue really what's going on in anyone else's life.

festivaloflifeanddeath.org/

My school friend killed herself in her early twenties after suffering severe mental health problems. The vicar at her funeral had also been our headmaster. He said that she had entered a very dark place and just couldn't come back. That thought has always stayed with me.

My own feelings about her at the time were how could she carry on living in this world? Her life had spun out of control and she had lost perspective on everything. If I had considered such a painful thought about her, the actual pain she must have been in is unimaginable.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/suicide/
helplines and advice.
you can email the Samaritans if not up to speaking- they can take several hours to reply though. email and no on the link.
you can also text them but I cant find that number.

My best friend's mum killed herself when my friend was very small. It's a terrible thing to do to your child. But at the same time, I think when parents do it they are in such a dark and lonely place that they genuinely believe their family will be better off without them. It's not fair in a sense to be angry but it's not fair to expect those left behind not to be either.

"Disgusting to compare that to someone dying from cancer"

This will be reported, to suggest that there is a hierarchy of suffering that death by suicide is somewhat an easy option on a thread about suicide?

I've seen loved ones die of both, both are horrific.

I am so sorry for anyone who comes to this thread, feeling suicidal and has to read a lot of views that suggest that suicide is some easy/selfish option.

There is a service here in Ireland called Peita House. Anyone can anytime ,arrive on their doorstep, if suicidal. There are supports in place WITHOUT JUDGEMENT.

Big hugs to all who are survivors of it, as I am. And I am glad that my own very painful painful experience has been a journey that ultimately has made me more compassionate. And Haribo, just please don't reply, you have an angry agenda which is helpful to no one, least of all yourself.

www.pieta.ie

As someone who has attempted suicide and who is basically kept alive by my meds, I will say this: the pain of depression is horrendous, it is physical, mental, and emotional torture. At my worst I have felt with all my heart that my children would be better off without me, that having to live with a severely depressed parent day-in day-out is far more damaging than losing a parent and being able to move on. I dreamed of a better life for them, with my husband remarried to someone who would be a better mother.

I come from a genetic background of severe depression and have family members who have made died from suicide. My greatest fear is my children getting this awful illness too, but I know the chances are high, I just hope that treatment becomes better and more sophisticated, because the huge dose of medication that I take has blunted all my feelings. I cannot cry, but cannot lose myself in laughter. I am not depressed but nor am I ever fully happy. There is no emotional pain, but likewise no unadulterated joy

As someone who lost a very close friend to suicide, I do get how miserable the person who takes their life is. And I get how they are completely incapable of seeing this at a different level other than their own. It doesn't negate the guilt, hurt and abject misery for the people left behind who loved them though. It left me shattered for years.

According to the TMZ reports, her suicide note told her DD not to blame herself and to "ask her father". That seems a pretty freakin cruel thing to do to me.

Sadly I have known a few people who have taken their own lives, in various ways.

One stands out in particular: a young man who did not have a known history of depression but rather a specific event happened to him and he had no clue how to handle it and was frightened of telling anyone. So he decided to kill himself. If I told you what the event was you would weep with frustration that this very young man didn't just tell his parents and allow them to help fix it (it was very fixable). So many lives devastated as a result of his actions. He left a note. He wasn't depressed. He was ashamed of something and terrified of the fallout (which could have been dealt with). It was a sudden reaction.

Just wanted to share that because not all suicides are the result of people being mentally ill or depressed.

We don't know anything about Kate Spade's situation. The burden for her poor daughter will be unbearable.

I lived with a suicidal single parent as a child, but she wasn't successful until I was an adult. My mum took her life in the epitome of the "selfish" manner, by jumping in front of a train. She left a brief note indicating that she didn't want to cause me any more pain. Her father committed suicide in the same way (when she was 14) and I don't think she was ever able to cope with it.

I don't feel that she was selfish. When she was well she was an incredible, selfless person who gave a great deal of herself to help others. She was very ill though, and her death was a consequence of her illness. I think she genuinely felt that she caused more pain staying alive than she did by killing herself.

However I was an adult when she died and I do wonder how I'd feel if one of her earlier attempts, when I was still a child, had been successful. I was bereft when she died but was able to find ways to cope (most of the time at least) with my grief, anger and at times overwhelming guilt. Had I been a child I wonder if I would have directed my anger towards her.

I guess what I'm trying to (somewhat clumsily) say is that while I would plead with anyone to be compassionate enough to understand that suicide is not a selfish act but a symptom of a terrible illness, at the same time, it is understandable why a child bereaved by suicide might see it that way.

It's like ripples on a pond. Her father's suicide led to her own, but I fight very hard to make sure it stops there. I have at some point to explain to my children what happened to my mum and her father, and I do find myself getting angry at times, much as I don't want to, because of the long lasting consequences of their actions and the impact they may have on the grandchildren she never met.

People whom I have known with ‘depression’ have tended to be quite self-pitying, inward looking people.

Wow.

That's not judgemental at all.

I liken depression to being at the bottom of very deep, dark well, which is steadily filling up with murky water, and no hope of rescue.

People can only tread water for so long. They may use medication or therapy to keep them afloat long enough to be floated upwards, into the light. They may self medicate with illicit drugs or alcohol, not realising that this will weaken their ability to stay afloat. They often repeatedly self medicate, because the realising that their "coping" strategy makes their situation worse, makes the pain harder to bear.

Sometimes, due to a mental abnormality, such as a personality disorder, the person may deliberately refuse to grab hold of a rope being thrown down to them. Or feelings of not being worthy can result in the same.

Ultimately, some people are simply not able to stay afloat and tread water, until the rising water reaches the top. This doesn't make them selfish. Down in that well they can't see anyone else. Love can't keep people afloat who are worn out by treading water every minute of every day. Going under doesn't mean not wanting to live. It means not having the energy to swim and see any way out of the well.

That's how I see it anyway. [Flowers] to all affected. And to anyone suicidal now......there's always a rope. Please grab it x

I hate when people attempt to silence the voices of the families that have someone suffering from a mental illness, particularly if they happen to be angry and frustrated.

Whilst the pain of those who suffer from a mental illness is all encompassing, that doesn't mean their actions do not affect and hurt those around them and that they are without or beyond blame.

My father was an alcoholic and he never quite succeeded prioritising his family over his drinking, as his child I can honestly hate him for it. Not because he wasn't deeply unhappy, but because his actions have had a profound, life long effect on me and as my parent he failed in his duty to care for me. My anger is just as valid as his reasons were.

As someone who's suffered from depression I would argue it's a rather self absorbed, selfish illness in a way, not because we lose our compassion and empathy, but because the darkness within doesn't really allow much room for other people's sensibilities. We might feel that those left behind will be better off without us because we absorb their upset and grief and make it our own making it look we have nothing left worth fighting for.

It might not be palatable some of us aren't willing to forgive, but it doesn't mean there's something intrinsically wrong with the way we feel.

Utterly heartbreaking all around .

I feel sad for Kate, her daughter and her husband. She must have been in a lot of pain to do this and not see any other route out.
This interview was recorded less than 8 weeks ago and it seems like she has everything to live for. We do not know what pain people are living with. I am so sorry to all on this thread who have experience of losing a family member in this way.

I apologise- that was filmed a year and 8 weeks ago. The point is that people can get ill quite quickly and people can also make impulsive choices. None of us know what Spade's circumstances were and we are naturally curious because it is always a dreadful event, that for many of us is unfathomable.

I would never invalidate the feelings of people on here who have lost a family member. It they perceive it as selfish, I respect that position. They are entitled to voice that. They knew the person and they know the experience of surviving that event.

I don't think all suicides are the same, that is the truth.
I feel for this family because everyone will know this- how does that 13 year old go back to school in August, with everyone around her knowing this? How does she make sense of her mum leaving her? These are genuine questions that anyone close to the person is going to feel.
I hope the high profile nature of this case raises awareness of the need for people suffering with a mental health problem, to get help. Let's hope Spade's death saves the lives of others. She seemed like a talented artist, with a vibrant love of life who got into a critical position, where she saw this as the optimum course of action for her and her family. I do think if she had got the right help she could have avoided this outcome and I think we all have a sense of that when this happens. If only the person could have got the right help....

Morning all,
This thread has brought back all sorts of memories for me.

Being told that she was ill, wasn't my fault but worst of all forgive and don't be angry.

As far as I'm concerned, my mother deliberately did a selfish act and left me to deal with her life and my life.

I have a right to be angry.

Yet again, the only support is for the people considering such an act.

What about those left behind?
Being told "don't be angry, it's ugly. You must forgive"
(cheers, Samaritans)
I have no pictures of her, never been to her grave nor did I go to her funeral. I don't want any memory of what she did to me.

I'll get called selfish on here for not feeling kindness but where was the compassion for a 12 year old whose mother killed her self and her world got turned inside out.

My brother died by suicide. He had talked about it and we even got him assessed but he was released. Sometimes they do talk about it.

PettyNotVindictive I think I would have felt the same as you had my mum succeeded in killing herself in my childhood, rather than once I was an adult. My post a few up was rather waffly and unclear but I understand what you are saying and why you feel as you do. I did feel anger (and still do when I think of the ripple effect it will have on my kids) although for me the overwhelming emotion I felt was guilt.

Apologies if you already know of them but I found Survivors of Bereavement by Suicide (SOBS) very helpful. I went to a support group for a while after my mum's suicide, and it definitely helped to talk to others with the same feelings of anger, bewilderment and grief.

Sadly, people considering suicide are often in such a dark place they are unable to seek help. RIP Kate.

Petty no one thinks you are selfish
I am desperately sad about what happened to you and without wanting to sound trite I could weep for the 12 year old you . All
Of them .

Just because I have a different viewpoint in the death it doesn’t mean I don’t think you had a horrific time and still are

And I am so glad I ‘got help’ when I felt so bad as heaven knows what my kids would go through

So many
I am really sorry this thread and issue has affected you

Same for Fives

Your poor mother and poor you

May everyone find peace - eventually