to say, about Kate Spade's apparent suicide?

[Standandwait]

... that there are two things I take away from this:

1. there are a lot of people out there who you think are just fine and should be so happy but just aren't... not only Kate Spade, what about Robin Williams? Be aware others may be fragile and try not to hurt them.

2. if you think you're worthless and a failure remember there are probably other people out there who admire you and wish they were like you. Don't kill yourself get help.

One of the problems with suicide is that it inevitably leads to such points as the ones being made above by Windy and others - that help is rejected in favour of (what?) and that suicide is in some way a selfish act that harms others.

It does, of course it does, but responding in that way takes the illness away from that individual and turns it around. Ironically, to say “this was a selfish act because it caused me immeasurable pain” is in itself quite selfish.

These feelings are important of course but to feel this years down the line, as in, “I can’t believe they did this to me” is something that does throb uncomfortably for me.

It isn’t a final act of selfishness but release. And while talking can help, it’s naive in the extreme to think just talking will stop someone going through with such an act once they are determined to do so.

haribo totally agree. I’m in a similar situation to you and say the same about my father.

Some of these posts have made me so sad.if you think suicide is selfish: fuck you. You have no idea how low someone must be to even think about it. And to the woman who said a parent is more selfish? Fuck you more.

My dad committed suicide 25 years ago now. I was 5. Growing up I couldn't understand why he thought killing himself would benefit me. Why I wasn't worth living for.
I have dealt with these issues my whole life and I will have to keep dealing with them.

As an adult though i understand it more. It wasn't about me not being good enough for him it was about him not feeling good enough for me.

It's such a sad and upsetting thing to live with. My mum has never been the same but she happier now she is in her 50s.

It's devastating and I really hope that Kate's daughter gets all the love and support she can get. I hope that one day she will be able to understand that this wasn't about her not being good enough. But that her mother just couldn't feel better inside.

What an emotional thread.

Much love to everyone.

I understand, Haribo. And I agree with you.

I think those f us who have lost a parent to suicide are entitled to feel whatever we want to about it.

And I certainly do know how low you can feel that you contemplate it.

Read this powerful piece It explains very clearly one family's perspective. Won't apply to all, of course.

Glad to see there is some here who can understand what people have or are going through.

Unless you have been here, you won't know what it is like to feel worthless and it doesn't matter how rich or poor or how successful you are.

There can be a number of reasons why people do it, it could be that they think other people's lifes will be better without them, it could be they are so depressed they want the pain to stop, they could be so desperately lonely or it can be a combination. There is people who think about it most days but never go through with it.

It's easy to say people should ask for help, there is a lot of stigma and even talking about your feelings with someone else can be soul destroying, if someone asks you if you are ok it's easier just to say it's ok then have a break down and deal with the stigma.

Unfortunately people still don't think of depression as a illness and that's part of the problem, its happening slowly but not fast enough.

The biggest killer of men in UK under 45 is sucicide,the women's rate is currently increasing which is really sad.

I've really of posts on here and been in tears reading through them.
Sorry for your losses.

It's awful, depression is cruel.

Someone close to me attempted suicide last year, he was put on the list for counselling, the list was 10 months long. It's shocking tbh.

Sheila- you really haven't been rick bottom if you still say parents are worse than nOn parents. It's a disgraceful attitude.

Such a dreadful thing to happen, and just highlights how depression can affect anyone. I totally get how depression is an illness and that sometimes it can be so awful that people suffering from it genuinely believe they will be doing their family / friends a favour by killing themselves... BUT even knowing this and understanding this, I just couldn't envisage any scenario where I would leave my child to deal with the aftermath of their mothers suicide. Maybe this is because I lost a parent when I was a child and I can see very clearly the long term effects on myself and the rest of my family, and how awful the grief was for all of us- I could not bear to put my child through that. It was awful and she did not kill herself- I can't imagine how much more horrendous it would be when the parent chooses to leave their child and what kind of effect that would have on them short and long term. Of course depression in an illness and of course people who are suicidal think they are doing what's best in their state of mind, but how can you possibly explain that to a child and expect them to be able to deal with it?

You really don't get it then. Unless you've been there, you will never know.

I found this article really moving:
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/04/aisling-bea-my-fathers-death-has-given-me-a-love-of-men-of-their-vulnerability-and-tenderness

Although I have no personal experience of suicide, I hope I will never make judgement on those who choose suicide - surely those are people who are in such a dark place, they feel they have no other choice? So sad.

We dont know what brought it on. Robin Williams had a degenerative disease [cant remember what it was]. I think its awful, esp as she has a 13 year old dd.
My brother has tried to kill himself twice. I remember asking him why he did it. He said he didnt want to live. I asked him how he could do it to his family and he simply replied that everyone would get over him. It is what he wanted. It is a selfish illness in the sense that those that are depressed, dont consider others in the mix.

My ex husband took his own life in the exact same circumstances being reported about Kate Spade a few weeks ago.

Currently I am supporting my 7 year old DS through this and I am devastated for Kate’s daughter, seeing first hand how it affects a child.

My ex left notes and we are still none the wiser as to why, there was no history or signs he was suffering,

I feel like he has left DS with the fact that it is viable to end your life if you don’t want to be here anymore. I completely agree with the statements above about how it’s extremely selfish as a parent to do. In his letter to DS he states he wanted nothing more than to see him grow up however he did want something more and that was actually to NOT be here to see it.

I have always been a fan of Kate Spade. However it will be a while before I can remember that because I think she has carried out the most selfish act as a parent today.

What I will say,is no one completely knows what’s going on for anyone else

And there a lot of misunderstanding & perpetuating myths about suicide

People who say they’re suicidal aren’t serious. On the contrary many suicidal people do disclose feelings

There’s a difference between suicidal ideation(suicidal thoughts) and suicidal intent(a plan, thinking about the method)

And I finally need to really say I hate the notion that suicide is cowardly or deranged. For the individual,in their opinion,it’s rationalised as decisive and overall a good choice. They genuinely believe their children/family will be better off without them. As hard and unpalatable as it is to contemplate,that’s how it is for that individual

And I want to acknowledge how difficult it is for those posters affected by suicide

I don't understand why people think it's selfish to kill yourself if you are depressed.

Nobody thinks someone with cancer is selfish if they die.

Depression is an illness too isn't it?

Pretamum - mental illness can and does overtake the thought processes and emotions that you describe in your post.

The posts on this thread have really touched me. So many of you have endured so much and are so brave sharing.

Can I ask though what we can do to support people who are suicidal? I've got a very close family member who I worry might take this route. How can I help them?

Of course depression in an illness and of course people who are suicidal think they are doing what's best in their state of mind, but how can you possibly explain that to a child and expect them to be able to deal with it?

You can't effectively explain it to a child. That's why we suffered every day from the loss of our parent.

My mum told me my dad died in a car crash. I was 5. When I was 15 on the anniversary of his death she told me the truth.
I literally thought I was going to die from the pain.
I knew she was hiding something (and everybody else who knew me) for all those years but I never guessed if was that.

Everyone I knew kept it from me and they lived a lie to keep me safe.

It had to come out at some point. I don't blame my mum.

How do you correctly tell a child there dad poisoned themselves.

The tabloids have printed some details of her note. Apparently Kate Spade blamed "relationship issues" and told her daughter it's not her fault.

Because news spreads so fast nowadays and because these events are discussed far more openly than in the past we can get a false perspective. Every individual case is an utter tragedy for the individual and an irrecoverable loss for those left behind. But the long term trends show a dramatic decline in the number of suicides - this really surprised me.
article here: academic.oup.com/ije/article/39/6/1464/736597

Quote from abstract: "The highest male rates (30.3 per 100 000) were recorded in 1905 and 1934 and have since been declining. Female rates peaked in the 1960s (11.8 per 100 000), declining afterwards. In both sexes the lowest recorded rates were in the 21st century."

You cannot berate someone for being selfish for committing suicide

Most of the time they are ill. All of the time they are desperate

to those on the thread who have lost close ones to suicide