to say, about Kate Spade's apparent suicide?

[Standandwait]

... that there are two things I take away from this:

1. there are a lot of people out there who you think are just fine and should be so happy but just aren't... not only Kate Spade, what about Robin Williams? Be aware others may be fragile and try not to hurt them.

2. if you think you're worthless and a failure remember there are probably other people out there who admire you and wish they were like you. Don't kill yourself get help.

I can't stop thinking about the daughter.

Somebody posted earlier on AIBU that she (or he, perhaps, come to think) is "not ok."

It takes a lot of bravery to be able even to say so aloud. And what's really sad is even people who manage the energy to say that, we sometimes still lose to suicide.

I do think there are a lot of people out there hurting who no one sees are hurting.

It's so sad. Kate spade is someone who has accomplished so much. Her teenage daughter is left without a living mother. It's so tragic.

I was organizing charity events for our school district and kate spade was amazing. She donated goods and also offered her time to come in and speak to the children interested in the industry. She didn't need to do this. She mentored a couple of disadvantaged children from our school district. They had paid internships and she personally helped them with financially with the cost of college.

May she Rest In Peace. She was an amazing person.

Yes OP. That's why the campaign about mental health and not stigmatising people is so important. If you broke your leg you'd tell people, if you feel broken inside it's hard to start that conversation. As a society we need to be more supportive and generally more kind.

"Yes depression is an illness and it can be unbearable but I think morally you lose the "right" to kill yourself when you have children."

Well as a survivor of parental death from suicide I disagree.

There is no moral right to it with, or without children.However not having the right to something does not make it wrong. This is similar to thinking that such deaths do not deserved proper burial etc,. having children, loving them is no immunity to suicide, if so there would be far less cases or only childfree people dying from it.

That is very judgemental, and I know first hand as a child what it is like, my personal recovery/healing includes forgiveness .

maybe you cannot imagine contemplating it as a parent because you have not had the illness the leads to it. I suggest reading Sally Brompton.

My best friend committed suicide when we were 19. She called me for a chat and then jumped off a bridge 20 minutes later
She had depression but was ok and didn’t seem bad, she was almost ‘normal’ and in a good place, or so I thought.
I had no idea, until the police called me because I was the last number she had called and her parents were on holiday.
It’s awful, I still cry over it and it absolutely broke her parents.

There’s a lot of standard, oft repeated phrases around suicide that really need examining because they are so victim-blaming

Waxon my husband was offered lots of help, had lots of understanding but refused it all. He didn't want to be helped, he went out of his way to avoid help. I knew he would do it one day but not when his son was so young. I struggle to forgive him 10 years later. I'm still angry - we tried to help him and he didn't want to be helped.

. If they believed life was better with them in it they wouldnt do it but they dont and we cant ever truly find out why after the fact.

This.

My best friend from university killed himself a few years ago. To the outside world he had everything, a good career, a loving family, plenty of money and all the trappings of success. But he was depressed and he had been depressed for as long as he could remember. His wife did all she could to make him happy, but she couldn't and he knew that he was ruining her life and his children's lives by feeling the way he did. He had tried everythin to fight the depression, but nothing worked and so it got to the point where he knew that he was never going to get better, to feel differently and so he decided that it was better for him, for his wife, his children, his parents, siblings and friends if he was dead. So he killed him self.

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

People who kill themselves don't do it lightly. They do it because they feel that it is the right thing to do, they can't cope in this world any longer and every day is a new torture. They see the effect that their depression is having on everyone they love and they want it to stop, to make it better for them and they know that the only thing they can do to achieve that is to die.

I know this because he told me.

Haribo

I have similar feelings around my own biological parents. It's hard. Nobody accepts that this is a rational way to feel, sometimes... I hope things are better for you now.

@HariboIsMyCrack
"Mental illness is just that - an illness. Not carte blanche to fuck up the lives of one's family"
Yes to this

Simply heartbreaking.

Poor thing. She must have been so terribly ill.

"Yes depression is an illness and it can be unbearable but I think morally you lose the "right" to kill yourself when you have children

This is a terrible thing to write, and deeply offensive to anyone with s parent who committed suicide

I don't know much about it, but I do know it's not a act anyone does lightly. It isn't about moral right, it is about some deep pain someone is going through and their own internal fight.

Windy It is hard to forgive, and especially so when you were there to support and offer help that he didn't take. It wasn't him though, it was the illness. He probably didn't feel worthy of help. As frustrating as it feels and as angry as you feel (and I can't blame you) I can guarantee his motivation was not to cause you or your son hardship and pain. He probably thought he was relieving you of the burden of himself if that makes sense?

I really hope that in time, for your own sake, you can shift the blame to the illness and not him

I am really sorry for your loss and wish you any happiness you can find for you both. x

I remember reading a very powerful piece by the broadcaster Libby Purves after her son Nicholas died. He had suffered for many years with depression, and she said (or it could have been her daughter who said it) that he stayed as long as he could. So very sad.

It's devastating isn't it? You would have assumed she had such a fulfilling and joyful life.

Her accessories were the first things I bought when I started earning money - I felt like an adult for the first time buying those and they made me seem so sophisticated and glamorous. I'm so, so sad to hear about her death.

I think for every act someone does or whatever someone says, you need to look at the motivation behind that to see what sort of person they are. You'd have to be some sort of thrawn bastard to deliberately kill yourself just to cause others pain. There is also a big difference between personality disorders and mental illness but I'm no expert.

Off the point but I have absolutely zero idea who she is. You all seem to know of her.

My brother aged 34 took his own life 4 years ago leaving his daughter aged 8 at the time. He had a silent battle with himself as not one person knew how he felt leading up to his death, he was exactly the and for his whole life and there were no clues at all. As his sister I never once felt anger and bitter towards him, and I have never thought him to be selfish, I felt (and still do tbh) immense sadness that he wasn’t able to ask for help or discuss how he felt. The difficulty is that those who die from suicide are individuals and have very different stories so I don’t think there is a ‘reason’ that we can generalise or use to prevent it happening in future. Some spend a long battle with depression or mental illness and think about suicide and ‘plan’ it for a long time, others decide at the last minute and it all happens quickly. Whatever the ‘reason’ it is private and personal and not for the general public to speculate over as it feels very disrespectful x

A 15 yr old in my son's school year took his life very suddenly last year. There were no warning signs whatsoever. His family and friends were in complete and utter shock. Still are.