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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DH and DD's 'inappropriate' clothing..

202 replies

newdocket · 04/06/2018 18:57

DD (nearly 12) just got changed into a pair of shorts and a strappy top with a small cut out in it. She has no cleavage to speak of currently. I didn't really think anything of it.

When DH came in for dinner he told her that she would need to change her top before they went out to an activity together. She didn't want to change and he ended up going into a big rant about how her clothing would be sending out inappropriate signals and that wearing tops exposing cleavage was essentially a way of attracting the wrong sort of attention from the opposite sex.

She changed (under duress) and they've now gone off. I'm now reflecting on the conversation and feeling a bit 'wrong' about it. Essentially, I don't want her being told what she can and can't wear because of how this might make men behave inappropriately. Also, she's still very young and I don't think is even thinking in terms of attracting male attention. On the other hand, I do get that there are certain things I wouldn't really want her to wear and perhaps if she did have cleavage I might feel differently. I don't know.

Is there a 'right' way to go about this? I just have a general feeling that this isn't it, without really having any answers.

OP posts:
MuncheysMummy · 04/06/2018 20:47

I actually kind of agree with your DH,I really find it innapropriate when young girls and early teens wear ‘sexualised’ clothes, and a cut out where her boobs will soon be,and on some girls her clothes size could already be is only there to put her body on showcase. Why does a 10 year old need to be wearing clothes designed to show off her body? She could as easily wear a vest top with spaghetti straps without a cut out she wouldn’t be any less cool. She has her whole life ahead of her to worry about what her body looks like in clothes at her age they are just to be comfy and cover her up surely?!

Original poster
newdocket · 04/06/2018 20:51

I don't disagree either really, I do look at some clothes and think 'that's inappropriate', but I didn't feel that way about this top.

I think the real issue is the way it was handled. I'm going to talk to him about it and also mention the very good point about the importance of him challenging inappropriate male behaviour.

OP posts:
captainproton · 04/06/2018 20:53

Regarding school children being abused, they are being groomed by paedophiles who have deliberately decided to target their prey by working in schools. That is why we have strict safeguarding laws now for those working with children. These men will do anything.

My daughter hanging around with her mates in cut out clothing where any boys/young men/old men might approach her, or just ogle her because she’s wearing adult clothing and makes her look older than 11, as opposed to a Tshirt which makes her look like a child. I’m pretty sure most of these blokes have no intention of raping an 11 year old. They are just behaving inappropriately which will upset my daughter.

captainproton · 04/06/2018 20:55

And I’ve got a top with a cut out at the back, that doesn’t show cleavage either but it’s not the kind of top being discussed.

Ebony69 · 04/06/2018 21:00

My daughter turned 12 last week and there is no way I would allow her to wear a sexualised top like that. I entirely agree with the DH. Can’t believe how much he’s being vilified.

TatianaLarina · 04/06/2018 21:14

Regarding school children being abused, they are being groomed by paedophiles who have deliberately decided to target their prey by working in schools

Not paedophiles necessarily, the school includes a prep school and a senior school.

You’ve completely evaded the point that the boys’ clothing was of no relevance whatsoever in selecting targets. Nor is boys or men’s clothing ever deemed significant in sex offences.

TatianaLarina · 04/06/2018 21:17

I’ve got a top with a cut out at the back, that doesn’t show cleavage either but it’s not the kind of top being discussed

You mean invented, not discussed. Invented by you, with no reference to what the OP actually said.

captainproton · 04/06/2018 21:22

Yawn. A top with a cut out which would show a busty child’s cleavage. Well if that’s not a cut out top with the cut out bit in the breast region, then what is?

I have not said that wearing sexual clothing will leD a child to be raped by a paedophile. I have said it would suggest that the child was open to flirting and sexual attention. Because not all men are good at ages. And unfortunately there are a lot of men who find girls in their early teens attractive. They will look and it’s not right, but neither is it a sexual assault.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 04/06/2018 21:24

No, wouldn’t sit well with me either. It’s his issue, and he’s trying to make it hers. I’m sure you are quite capable of assessing the suitability of her clothing without his patriarchal input.

TatianaLarina · 04/06/2018 21:27

The OP specifically stated her DD has no cleavage to speak of. I have also specifically stated I have a t-shirt that has a small cutout under the neckline. It’s basically just a detail and nowhere near my cleavage.

I cannot be bothered repeat my previous points, Captain, you’re clearly not very bright.

Flooffloof · 04/06/2018 21:33

Let's think about people who want to groom a child. Do they choose
the tomboy in jeans or the child who looks like they are up for
experimenting sexually. Like it or not, clothes do send a message.

They choose whatever it is that is their "thing"
So if it's blonde five year olds, that's what they look for, if it's 11 year olds that look like 11 year olds, or 11 year olds that look 16.
See clothes have fuck all to do with it.

rosesandflowers · 04/06/2018 21:35

I get that he wants to protect her, but if a man is the sort of man that would rape or ogle a 12yo, he's the sort of man who would rape or ogle a 12yo whether she puts a jumper on over her top or not - and unfortunately, your DH isn't a superhuman that can see into men's eyes and protect her from them. The sad truth is she's going to encounter or hear about men like this regardless of what she wears.

The insinuation that she is responsible for safeguarding herself against predatory behaviour is one I would not like my DD to hear.

captainproton · 04/06/2018 21:38

just Because her daughter has no cleavage doesn’t mean the cut out doesn’t reveal skin where the cleavage ought to be.

And I know not all men like busty women some like women with very small breasts.

Having an under developed 11 year old is not a guarantee she won’t get perved over.

Insulting my intelligence and going on about your own top and how cut outs don’t have to be in cleavage enhancing locations isn’t really the point of this thread. you don’t like my point of view, but I am not the one getting personal because you have run out of arguments.

likelyLilac · 04/06/2018 21:38

it's tricky deffinitely, by the sounds of it the outfit she had on was perfectly reasonable for a hot day, strappy top and shorts.
However for your other thought of clothes you don't want her to wear, I always thought why don't I want them to wear that? For things like princess outfits to a wedding when they were younger it was because it would draw attention, so when it comes to grown up things like sexy dresses and make up and heels I would say "I want you to have as long of a childhood as possible, when you look back at being 12, 13, 14 i want you to remember how fun it was, not the pressure to dress up." obviously they didn't get it at the time so they just took it off because I said so, but I think when they look back on their extended child hood they apreciate that I didn't let them put on these things even though they really wanted to then.
Puting on grown up clothes before they are ready feels very nice for a little while but quickly it can make them uncomfortable and they can put a lot of pressure on them selves to look good.

Avoiding · 04/06/2018 21:41

i don't think the OPs DH is suggesting she may be raped, he probay doesn't want people ogling his 11 year old daughter or even other boys looking at her in that way.
clothes CAN be sexual, it doesn't make it ok for a man to harass you and it isn't anyones fault but the man's
however some clothes are designed to draw attention to certain areas and young girls should be made aware that this means attentions from men they may not want attention from.
I would be far more upset if my DH didn't give a shit what our daughter wore.

PaintedHorizons · 04/06/2018 21:41

Of course he wasn't slut shaming his own child - how ridiculous. He aso was not victim blaming her - since she was not a victim. People do love their cool jargon don't they.

The issue is a serios one and should be debated but those comments are unhelpful at best.

Would you let your teen boy go out in a pair of budgie smugglers and a string vest?

captainproton · 04/06/2018 21:47

I wouldn’t let my son go out in tight shorts, or wear a top designed to be tight and show off his chest either. Because women can look at boys in the same way. And it’s often overlooked that boys can be targets of unwanted sexual attention as well.

PaintedHorizons · 04/06/2018 21:53

Clothes are designed to send messages - that's why we choose them. When I goon a date or to a party I don't go in a sack. I wear a dress, and heels, and make-up.I make an effort, I want to look sexy and pretty and available/ approachable - maybe... so I'll choose with care.

When I go for an interview I'll wear a black trouser suit with a blouse or a dark dress and jacket - not a crop top and a thing.

Learning this language of clothes is important. Nothing really to do with perverts and sex offenders.

PaintedHorizons · 04/06/2018 21:54

thong - not thing Blush

Babynut1 · 04/06/2018 22:08

I used to get far more Male attention when I went out with my tits half hanging out than when I went out dressed conservatively.

I get the rapists are rapists regardless of what you’re wearing but I wouldn’t want some filthy perve ogling my daughter.
It disgusts me how sexualised some kids clothing is.

You’re husband was right. Think he could have worded it better

lifetothefull · 04/06/2018 22:12

I think he could have made the same point in a gentler and kinder way. He is trying to protect her . I teach my dds to dress appropriately for the situation they are going to out of respect for everyone including themselves. Sometimes girls need a bit of guidance, which can be done without shaming them.

Pa1oma · 04/06/2018 22:16

Without having seen the top in question, I think your husband was probably right, but maybe he worded it wrong. He could have said the top was too grown up for her, or something to that effect, My DH wouldn't let our girls out in that kind of thing. Clothing such as crop tops or very short shorts are not something either of us think it's necessary. If she's only 11, there are so many other clothes to buy.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 04/06/2018 22:29

To be fair @TatianaLarina a lot of abusers of boys and girls have very different MOs. Also boys aren't taught to be pretty and impress as a teen so don't tend to try to make themselves noticeable.

I had a friend who loved tight jeans and low cut tops at 12. She thought it was trendy and cool and like her big sister who was 16/17 - but of course the perverts didn't care about her reasons.

I think an abuser who the victim already knows will not give a crap about clothing. But if we are talking about sexual harassment or perverts who are strangers and just chancers, clothing will come into play.

I hate to be sexist but very few female abusers are the type to just attempt it on a stranger. It tends to be prolonged and a more emotional and manipulative abuse (as a rule).

Unfortunately menmen will see someone wearing clothes that expose lots of skin or what not as open invitation to ogle. It's disgusting and very invasive but they aren't the type to be swayed by reason.

In this situation I'd agree with DHs concerns but he handled the discussion terribly. If I were him I'd have got you to discuss the issue with her as a fellow female and not in front of her brothers - she must've felt very awkward.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 04/06/2018 22:32

Oh and don't forget it's not just Percy old men. There's 13/14/15 year old boys who may look too.

I think the best we can do is teach our sons how to respect a woman and not just with words but with actions. Equally, teach our daughters that if someone is aggressive or sexual to us that we don't have to just put up with it. That if it feels safe to do so challenge or shame them. Because these are often weak men who can't get real relationships and if they do, they rarely function well in them.

Biologifemini · 04/06/2018 22:36

This isn’t about slut shaming at all.
It is about protecting your daughter from hassle. As a teen if I went out in a skimpy outfit I got hassle and unpleasant comments. When I didn’t wear this sort of clothing the harassment stopped. He is helping your daughter make her life more comfortable.