DH and DD's 'inappropriate' clothing..

[newdocket]

DD (nearly 12) just got changed into a pair of shorts and a strappy top with a small cut out in it. She has no cleavage to speak of currently. I didn't really think anything of it.

When DH came in for dinner he told her that she would need to change her top before they went out to an activity together. She didn't want to change and he ended up going into a big rant about how her clothing would be sending out inappropriate signals and that wearing tops exposing cleavage was essentially a way of attracting the wrong sort of attention from the opposite sex.

She changed (under duress) and they've now gone off. I'm now reflecting on the conversation and feeling a bit 'wrong' about it. Essentially, I don't want her being told what she can and can't wear because of how this might make men behave inappropriately. Also, she's still very young and I don't think is even thinking in terms of attracting male attention. On the other hand, I do get that there are certain things I wouldn't really want her to wear and perhaps if she did have cleavage I might feel differently. I don't know.

Is there a 'right' way to go about this? I just have a general feeling that this isn't it, without really having any answers.

As a poster said earlier, I hope he is challenging any pervy behaviour and that includes his dudebros.

sexual provocative clothing

Can you explain what’s sexually provocative about shorts and a t-shirt with straps? On an 11 year old?

Actually - ykw - just don’t.

I think DH does need a word about victim blaming, though be clear you understand he was trying to be helpful - but that his attitude is reinforcing a negative message that a lot of girls get thrown at them.

Maybe google for some good, ideally short, articles about it and ask him to read them so he can't just say you are being ridiculous (he may anyway) but might absorb the idea that this is not some foible of yours, or that you are blaming him alone, but a widely-understood problem.

I don’t know, I remember my childhood. Being 12, watching some of my peers dressing up, make-up and flirting with lads of 19-20. I don’t think they all had breasts, they all pretended they knew what they were doing, saying they’ll do this or that for male attention. I have no idea how old the men thought they were, but not old enough to be 16 I’m sure. I was never allowed to wear anything revealing or make up so I felt inferior and never joined in. Thank god.

Op said it had a cut out bit in the top. Why does a child’s clothes need this?

depends on the top really.

I think when theyre older, they can weigh it up as to what sort of attention they want, and dress accordingly.
Men and boys SHOULDNT assume anything from a girl or a woman , no matter how she dresses, but this is the real world and male attention at twelve is awkward and can be damaging, and men/boys are so often pigs.

An extra inch of flesh will never turn an otherwise honest man into a sex offender. That’s not how it works.

And no I don’t blame the girls. But you got to be dim to think that wearing revealing clothing on a 12 year old won’t arouse some males.

We are not talking about honest men are we...

there are a lot of dishonest men out there though.
Im not sure why 11 year olds tops need cleavage cut-outs anyway. Who designed that?

TBH I wouldn't let my 11 year old wear a top with a cleavage hole.

you missed that some girls prefer a bit of padding to hide their nipples

This was not a bit of padding, it was shaped into a busty style. Completely unnecessary.

The men who were already going to sexually assault women are aroused by the power and the feeling of control. Most rapists wouldn’t be able to recall in a court of law what their victim was wearing.

We are not talking about honest men are we...

dishonest men don't give a shit what they're wearing, or actually given that we're talking about an 11 year old are not actually interested in girls dressed in clothes that signal availability when worn in adult consenual dating environments. Since they're interested in 11 year old girls...

I think I agree with the fact you’re ur DH was slut shaming your dd. And that he did in front of your two ds which means he has also taught them that if a girl wears some cleavage etc.. she is a slut/wants to attract attention (and therefore all responsibility is in her shoulders).

So whatever way you go on about talking about clothes, then it can’t be that one iyswim.

How you would talk to her about appropriate clothes, I’m not sure (I have two teen boys so more used to work on the other side of the equation!) because just like you I feel conflicted. Like she shouod be able to wear whatever but at the same it’s not quite right.....

Well that maybe but I still wouldn’t want any old blokes eyeing up my daughters or being wolf whistled.

To be honest, it’s difficult to escape sexualised clothing as a teen because the media has hijacked every expression of female youthfulness it possibly can. School uniforms are massively sexualised in pornography and popular culture - are children at fault for that too?

A man was looking down my strapped top abroad on a bus (I was sat down, he was stood up holding the bar). I was similar age but did have considerable cleavage. My Dad swore at the man which is rare, my Dad is pretty silent and not a fan of swearing. But he was disgusted.

I can understand why he wouldn't want people ogling his daughter but at the same time she shouldn't have to change a nice top because some nasty pervert can't stop eying up a child.

If conflicted too.

Tambien, I think that's exactly how I feel. I think there is a line between 'appropriate' and not (in this instance, I don't think I saw this top as inappropriate because she has no cleavage and the cut out was high up and small, perhaps if she was very busty I would see it differently).

It think it has to be about framing it in a way that isn't suggesting that women's clothes are responsible for men's behaviour and also discussing it privately rather than over the dinner table.

DD has also talked about wolf-whistling from men in vans recently. This is when she and her friends are walking to school apparently, in their modest school uniforms. So grim.

Tbh I am pretty conservative and You will not change my views. I e worked in a very male environment (former seafarer) I know the conversations men have. I am not naive.

Oh and I'd not say women are more likely to be raped in low cut/tight clothes but would say more likely to be ogled/cat called wearing it.

Me neither. But it isn’t my responsibility to change my behaviour so that they never change theirs. I know which side I’d rather be on.

Jesus this is depressing.

Your dh is clearly feeling very uncomfortable about his dd growing into a beautiful young woman, and looking older than the little girl she is. Not the way for him to handle those feelings, though