DH and DD's 'inappropriate' clothing..

[newdocket]

DD (nearly 12) just got changed into a pair of shorts and a strappy top with a small cut out in it. She has no cleavage to speak of currently. I didn't really think anything of it.

When DH came in for dinner he told her that she would need to change her top before they went out to an activity together. She didn't want to change and he ended up going into a big rant about how her clothing would be sending out inappropriate signals and that wearing tops exposing cleavage was essentially a way of attracting the wrong sort of attention from the opposite sex.

She changed (under duress) and they've now gone off. I'm now reflecting on the conversation and feeling a bit 'wrong' about it. Essentially, I don't want her being told what she can and can't wear because of how this might make men behave inappropriately. Also, she's still very young and I don't think is even thinking in terms of attracting male attention. On the other hand, I do get that there are certain things I wouldn't really want her to wear and perhaps if she did have cleavage I might feel differently. I don't know.

Is there a 'right' way to go about this? I just have a general feeling that this isn't it, without really having any answers.

That’s the attitude. As long as we’re placing the onus on women and girls to hide their bodies, we steal the locus of focus from men and their actions. It’s this age old myth that men are sex-entitled animals that can’t control their urges.

Encourage girls to avoid rape at all costs. The logical extension of this is to just hide away. There will still be rape. And if you look at the stats, I think you’d be quite surprised at what most of these women were wearing when it happened.

It's very tricky. My teenage DDs used to wear things that made them look very grown up and I was worried about them getting unwelcome or inappropriate attention. I would say something along the lines of 'you look lovely, but if I think you look nice older men might think so too and I wonder how you'd deal with that?''

My mum said exactly this and thank God she did! She saved me from many awful situations my friends experienced because they simply were not emotionally prepared for the attention older men gave them and pushed them into situations they didn't want to be in.

Okay, he probably went about it the wrong way, but calling it thing like 'slut shaming' is utterly ridiculous.

He's just a man with a young daughter who wants to try to protect her. And yes it sounds like he's probably going overboard and perhaps that's a conversation you need to have with him OP, but cut him some slack.

Did anyone actually hear me when I said I was sexually assaulted in jeans and a baggy t shirt? Covering up isn’t going to make a difference I’m afraid.

Making sure they stick together with the group of friends when they go out is probably a more valuable defence. Pervs tend to go for easier targets than a group.

I think he's right. Of course being attacked is no ones fault but the attackers, but back to the real world dressing like that is going to attract horrid unwelcome attention. He's trying to protect her. He handled it clumsily though I agree. "Bit too grown up for you love, why don't you put the blue t shirt on its much nicer" or similar in a breezy manner.

Notevil I'm sorry for that awful experience but I say this gently, I don't think people are discussing being attacked, for a young girl out with her dad it will be stares/ ogling/behaviour that's hard to explain but intimidating all the same.

No not a 12 year old but an adult obviously. But who knows what goes through the minds of your average paedophile. Look that 12 year old is exposing her cleavage, maybe she is up for it? Let’s go and chat her up?

I need to know what this top looks like. Picture please! Presumably you bought it for her OP, or some other adult did. If it's inappropriate why is it in her wardrobe?

I think nearly 12 is a difficult age to generalise about. My DS2 is 12 and some of the girls in his year look like 15 year olds compared to him while others look like 10 year olds.

I don't see how a strappy top sexualises a pre-pubescent girl - unless it's bearing some kind of sexualised slogan or wouldn't look out of place in a strip club.

I get that your OH wants to protect her but if he's struggling now then lord help him by the time she's 15. At that age I did everything I could to look as sexy as possible. It was almost like a competitive sport among my friendship group. You need to talk to him before the real fights begin!

Girls are far less likely to report a sexual attack if they feel they were somehow repsinsible. The only person who can control who gets attacked is the man himself. We can however, make sure girls and women feel comfortable enough to speak out by making sure they know they are in no way to blame.

Her mum thought the top looked fine. It can’t be that bad. Her dad is probably over reacting.

I hear ya Notevilstepmother

I made the same point myself.

The point is Adviceplease girls get ogled/harassed/attacked whatever they’re wearing. Primarily in casual clothing.

The men who are interested in 12 year olds are not going to care how they are dressed tbh.

I think you need I discuss this with DH, then together talk to DD about it.

Yes he wants to protect her BUT the undertone of what he is telling her now, at the age of 12, is that she needs to be aware of how she is perceived by men and alter herself and her clothes to minimise the risk of making men unable to control themselves. This is bad in 2 ways - your innocent DD is now going be thinking of this and potentially altering her tastes to make sure she isn't showing too much flesh while also subtly giving your DSs the idea that if they stare at women, it's not their fault.

As this seems to be the first time you've hit this issue, I imagine the impact on your DD is just annoyance at your DH rather than what his stance means. Talk about it, don't let this become the norm.

captainproton I don’t think many pedophiles are waiting for the green light.

OP’s DD is actually still 11. Nearly 12.

I’ve never seen an 11 year old that looked 15.

Last night - you've utterly missed the fact that a lot of girls prefer some padding as it hides nipples.

And while you may not regard his comments as slut shaming, just think about the message - that it's the girls responsibility to dress appropriately and therefore avoid assault, and the implicit implication that if she is assaulted it's her fault. It's also incorrect - there's no correlation between sexual assault and type of clothing worn by the victim.

I remember being about 12 or 13 and walking into town one summer with my friend. We had both cut off our jeans very short and had frayed the hems (it was the 80's).
We kept getting beeped by men passing in cars.Some shouting out.
I found it really embarrassing and uncomfortable. I'm not saying it was our fault, of course not, but we weren't equipped to deal with it or understand it.

Are people forgetting she's 11 so not sexualised or looking for attention herself yet at all she doesn't understand! People are so bloody quick to call "slut shaming" and "victim blaming" ffs. I agree, I feel uncomfortable seeing kids in inappropriate/skimpy clothes. Females DO dress a certain way to get attention. And males DO pay attention to exposed leg/cleavage/stomach etc. He's right. However, also, it's a gentle conversation to be had with her about it, discussing how she wants to portray herself, what's appropriate at what age etc Cmon we all judge others on how they look, even subconsciously.

I agree with troodiedoo

At present, just say the item is a bit grown up. A conversation will still need to take place as to how to deal with it in the future.

But I live in the real world, which is not fair or just. And I will not play games with my children. I will protect them as much as possible and don’t want them wearing sexual provocative clothing.

Of course being attacked is no ones fault but the attackers, but back to the real world dressing like that is going to attract horrid unwelcome attention

As opposed to the real world where 1 in 5 women in the UK have been sexually assaulted, no matter what they were wearing, because rape is caused by rapists, not clothes!

Are people forgetting she's 11 so not sexualised or looking for attention herself yet at all she doesn't understand!

It’s the OP DH who has forgotten that - that’s the whole point.

He's right. However, also, it's a gentle conversation to be had with her about it, discussing how she wants to portray herself

She’s 11!

smallchance - I didn't buy her the top, she bought it with her pocket money. I will try and find a picture. It is stripy, not midriff-bearing, strappy. This cut out is small, like an elongated 50p size.

She is a fairly tall, willowy nearly 12, not very developed.

No correlation. In fact, many sexually controlling and coercive men insist women cover up their bodies. Some fetishists like romper suits. Some pedophiles prefer children to dress like children rather than wear more adult clothing. Guess what? It makes no difference. We cannot be responsible for these men. God knows we hold ourselves responsible for enough already.

A strappy top with a cleavage cut out is hideously inappropriate for an 11 year old - if this is what she’s buying when out shopping with friends then she should’ve be out shopping with friends. At age 11.

It’s like seeing kids in those little triangle bikinis or hot pants wedged up their arse crack. Grim.

*shouldn’t