To stockpile food, medicine and petrol?

[Laudanumm]

So apparently we're now at very high risk of exiting the EU in March without a trade agreement with the EU. The government wanted to keep it secret, but it's been leaked that the middle of the 3 outcomes they're discussing, so not the bad one, is the port of Dover collapsing on day 1, immediate food shortages and almost immediate petrol and medicine shortages - as in, no food in the supermarkets. It's in the Sunday Times. AIBU to start stockpiling?

lostinsunshine A few reasons, none apart from Germany has as good welfare system as. We do,
I like Living where I do and for all it’s faults this country
My husbands and my parents are both very elderly and need are help
The point I was trying to get across is because of are very generous welfare system is why we have nearly 1 million Polish here but only 4,500 U.K. people in Poland,
Surely the welfare system and relative wages should be the same EU wide

user1486062886

The advantage of FoM is that it works both ways. It provides the UK with the labour that it needs and at the same time allows British citizens the opportunity of working anywhere in Europe. Over the last 40 years, millions of British citizens have taken the opportunity to work and study in the EU. 1.5 million British citizens currently live elsewhere in the EU; as many again are dependent on free movement in order to work (lorry and coach drivers, pilots and seafarers, travel reps, people delivering construction and engineering projects, consultants, salespeople, people working for European companies etc.).

People have yet to realise what they are losing - by building a wall to keep immigrants out, they are at the same time building a wall that keeps themselves locked in. Not only physically locked in, but also mentally locked into a mentality of supposed British supremacy and exceptionalism. 'They need us more than we need them' is the clarion call of Brexit and is about to be exposed as being nothing more than a wet fart.

In the mid-1970s the UK was the sick man of Europe, with civil unrest, strikes and poverty rife. It looked on in bewilderment at a Europe that had pulled itself together from the destruction of WW2 and had begun to prosper - failing to grasp that this had been achieved by countries, organisations and people choosing a collaborative way of working rather than the preferred British way of conflict and antagonism. Sadly, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat their mistakes, and if Brexit goes ahead, it will be the biggest mistake any country has made in this century.

Havanananana It’s 1.2 million in the EU and 350-400,000 are OAP who have retired with there wealth,

user1486062886

The point I was trying to get across is because of are very generous welfare system is why we have nearly 1 million Polish here but only 4,500 U.K. people in Poland,
Surely the welfare system and relative wages should be the same EU wide

Either the 1 million Polish are working in the UK, or they are claiming benefits - which is it? They cannot do both.

The 'relative numbers' argument (1m vs 4,500) is false. About 3 million citizens from the rest of the EU live in the UK. About 1.5m UK citizens live permanently elsewhere in the EU and about the same number work or study elsewhere in the EU - see my post above - so the numbers, while fluid, pretty much balance.

'Surely the welfare system and relative wages should be the same EU wide' You got it - that the whole basis of the EU, but it takes time to implement and for countries to catch up. We have relocated our business to the EU and when looking for locations considered many countries. In Poland we found that wages now rival those paid in the UK and elsewhere in Northern Europe. Polish companies were actively recruiting in the UK to persuade citizens to return home. The welfare system differs, but costs and facilities are approximately the same as the UK.

By the way, the UK has far to go before it reaches the standards of the rest of the EU in terms of welfare and wellbeing. The UK has fewer doctors per 1000 people than almost all EU states. The longest hospital waiting lists and the worst clinical outcomes for diseases such as cancer. The largest school classes. One of the lowest retirement pensions of the industrial nations.. The poorest public transport provision. This will not get better after Brexit.

I sometimes think Brexit is something Britain has to go through in order to get over its ridiculous nostalgic exceptionalism. It's a growing pain and a reality check.

Meanwhile it's perfectly possible that people could die (lack of medicines and immigrant medical staff, NHS privatised) and/or live in abject poverty (welfare system collapse, supply shortages, devalued currency etc.etc.).

Yes, we survived before the EU, but only just and the world isn't the same now as it was then. Britain just hasn't come to terms with that. We're a tiny island in the grand scheme of things, with mainly financial services to offer the rest of the world. And we've voted to hinder our ability to offer those services. It's utterly boggling.

The fight to take us back in will start on day 1 post Brexit day. Who knows, we could see the birth of a decent democratic system to replace our outdated one, new, more representative parties and a burgeoning national sense of belonging to a global world. I hope we do. But it's the path that gets us there that worries me.

Can anyone seriously look at our current parliament and say, yep, they're the ones I trust to negotiate us through these incredibly nuanced and difficult straits? I bloody can't.

The only sane thing to do is to call a halt to the proceedings, come up with a solution and then go back to the negotiating tables with both the EU and the country. Have a 10 or 20 year plan. Triggering Article 50 with no realistic or workable plan whatsoever was sheer madness.

Either the 1 million Polish are working in the UK, or they are claiming benefits - which is it? They cannot do both.

Of course they can! Low pay topped up with in-work benefits is a way of life for millions of people.

CarlessFandango I am sorry to here about your son and can understand why you are concerned, Any good business will bring in extra supplies if there is likely to be a problem, If the U.K. and EU can not get some sort of a deal even if temporary will be absolutely shocking for BOTH sides, as much as the U.K. will have let us down so will the EU, who will be willing trying to hurt you and your family and everybody else’s, they know some people in the U.K. voted to remain and if they can’t even do some kind of temp deal then obviously they will be very happy for people to suffer, if you saw your idiot neighbor in health trouble would you shut the door on him ?

FishesaPlenty So they can’t be claiming housing benefits, child benefits as well as working, and jsa if not working for a while or in between jobs,

'It’s 1.2 million in the EU and 350-400,000 are OAP who have retired with there wealth'

No, the 1.2-1.5m is the number of UK citizens permanently resident in the EU in 2015 - as in registered and living in the EU for at least 12 months. The figure does not include all of the categories that I've listed - drivers, pilots, travel reps, bar staff, students, consultants, project workers, employees of EU companies etc. who are temporarily working in the EU (and therefore not counted in the 1.5m permanent residents) but whose jobs are entirely dependent on FoM.

The stereotype of the British OAP abroad makes up less than 20% of the total number of British living and working on the mainland.

The only sane thing to do is to call a halt to the proceedings, come up with a solution and then go back to the negotiating tables with both the EU and the country. Have a 10 or 20 year plan. Triggering Article 50 with no realistic or workable plan whatsoever was sheer madness.

Absolutely this.

Well, we know where to find free food ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44230865

Recruitment agencies are warning that they cannot secure the number of workers needed by British farmers to pick their fruit and vegetables.

Over half of recruitment companies could not find the labour even in the "quiet" first months of this year, the Association of Labour Providers says

The National Farmers Union reports that last year there was a 17% drop in seasonal workers coming to the UK.

This led to some valuable produce being left to rot in the fields.

(contd)

Have a 10 or 20 year plan.

But what if the appetite for Brexit doesn't last 5 years ?

Or is that 10-20 years when the UK can't change it's mind ?

user1486062886 Read what I actually wrote and what I was replying to.

It's perfectly possible, common even, to claim benefits while working.

Havanananana That was the figures that were printed in the DT and the retired numbers were higher before the F.C. 2008

Oh, and I suspect the idea of "10-20 year plans" is something Jeremy Corbyn couldn't get enough of.

Perhaps, 10-20 years is a bit ambitious to start with. Maybe a series of "5-year plans" ?

But what if the appetite for Brexit doesn't last 5 years ?

Or is that 10-20 years when the UK can't change it's mind ?

Well, I would personally like to see another referendum, one with a choice of Option A (leave with specific EU deal), Option B (leave with different specific deal) or Option C (remain). But if we absolutely must leave, then it needs to be done with meticulous care and over time. If the political appetite changes, then so will the government's policy (you'd hope). The first step is still cancelling the Art50 suicide.

We're still headed towards a successive bunch of 5-year fudgy interim plans as it is. If I had some level of certainty as to what the country was actually doing, I could make some more concrete plans for my family. I.e. decide whether we still want to live here, apply for residency elsewhere, put the house on the market and so on. The uncertainty is a killer IMO. I could probably live with an EEA (or EEA+++ or whatever) deal, I couldn't with a WTO one.

You could always eat in season and just buy british

You could always eat in season and just buy british

You can kiss goodbye to the budget supermarkets and the food industry in generally with that attitude. Food would become more scarce and more expensive.

We'll need more fruit pickers too, which is already a problem.

I try and shop at our local Morrison’s as much as I can as it goes out of its way to stock British produce.

It everyone grew a bit of fruit and veg in a tub at home it would help to alleviate any problems. Maybe we should get the word out.

Already grow plenty of my own. But I'm not sharing with anyone outside my immediate family unless I get something I need in return. What an awful way to think! But that's what it has come to since this horrible result.

No point stockpiling anything unless you've got a gun to defend your stock with.

That’s the spirit.

If everyone grew a bit of fruit and veg in a tub at home

With what skills for a start ? And then most people would faint if they ate anything they grew themselves. They'd be overwhelmed with the taste.

No point stockpiling anything unless you've got a gun to defend your stock with.

Try that in the UK .