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Original poster

Well, it’s happened... the trans activists have waded into the 8th amendment issue in Ireland

670 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 01/06/2018 00:34

And are apparently pushing for the language in the repeal legislation to be “gender neutral”.

Quote from the article-

“Despite what some may believe, men can become pregnant too. There are tens of thousands of transgender men and non-binary people in Ireland who can conceive, and when speaking about reproductive healthcare, we must always be mindful of that.

“It’s imperative that newly written legislation uses inclusive language. By including this, trans men and non binary people will not hit legal barriers should they need to receive an abortion. By using the term pregnant people in new legislation, as well as protecting women, we are also protecting and respecting all gender identities should a crisis pregnancy occur.”

So. That’s nice. Thousands upon thousands of women have suffered, many have died, because of bullshit like the 8th amendment. And after fighting so hard for so fucking long and finally winning the right to bodily autonomy and reproductive rights, if the TAs get their way, we get to be referred to as pregnant people

I’m a bit of a TERF at the best of times but this is beyond fucking insulting. Savita Halappanavar wasn’t a pregnant person. Michelle Harte wasn’t a pregnant person. Sheila Hodges wasn’t a pregnant person.

If the TDs capitulate and let this happen I will be really pissed off.

OP posts:
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sleepingdragons · 02/06/2018 23:26

Sorry there was a bit missing from that:

Trans ideology says that lesbians who want to only date biological women are bigots.

Lesbians who don't want dick are currently being hounded out of the gay scene - out of Pride, out of their bars, groups, clubs, by male bodied people who demand they accept them as potential partners, and their supporters who insist that if they don't accept transwomen as lesbians then they are a bigot, a fascist, and a TERF who deserves to get punched.

Pratchet · 02/06/2018 23:47

Your own personal consent does not override other women's non-consent, Strongmum innit

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 00:29

Your own personal consent does not override other women's non-consent, Strongmum.

This. That's not how consent works, @Strongmummy

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 00:30

That was just this week. This is a war on women, and you really need to open your eyes to what's going on as it's not long that women have had the rights we've got use to, and we're at serious risk of losing them.

Absolutely.

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 00:35

Thank you - what an excellent post, Sleepingdragons.

SkinniesAreOver · 03/06/2018 00:36

Lesbians who wont date men are hounded out of Pride.. wow.

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 00:43

Indeed how would you even know a trans woman is trans unless you look up their skirt!!!

You would know if you were in a PE class in my DD's high school, Strongmummy.

This is because as of next year my DD will potentially be in class and forced to change in the same locker room as make bodied teens who self ID as girls. They will all be required to change together into the school issue unisex PE uniform of basketball style nylon shorts and plain T.

How would you feel about peeling off your 36E bra in order to put on a comfortable sports bra with a teenage boy beside you? How would you feel about getting undressed down to your knickers if you were wearing a sanitary pad, with a teenage boy observing you?

How would you feel if your personal sense of modesty and desire for personal privacy in the presence of someone clearly of the opposite sex was complained about and characterised as 'bigotry' to school officials?

The problem is not who is looking at the teenage boys to check what they have under their clothing, FFS.

The problem is who the teenage boys are looking at while naked or as near as dammit - namely teenage girls who have not been offered a choice about who gets to see their tits or their bare bottoms five days a week before and after PE.

Your posts indicate that you think this is all abstract - a question of establishing rights that will never be exercised. Rights that are completely abstract.

Pratchet · 03/06/2018 00:55

Jeez I'm so sorry for your daughter.

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 01:28

Me too Math.

sleepingdragons · 03/06/2018 01:30

mathanxiety I'm sorry that's happening :(

Your posts indicate that you think this is all abstract - a question of establishing rights that will never be exercised. Rights that are completely abstract.

I think you're spot on - many women simply don't see how this affects them. Or think that's it's only words, what does it matter? If some men want to call themselves women, it can't hurt can it? I used to think this before I understood the logical conclusions of what the TRAs are advocating.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 03/06/2018 01:42

mathanxiety Sad that's awful! I hope you can you get parents together to complain & things changed.

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 01:48

This was all accomplished by an administration that refused to do a study of the impact on girls of the presence of male bodied students in situations of partial or complete nudity, on participation in girls' sports teams - an arm whose muscles developed under the influence of testosterone would be a lot more useful on a softball team or a swim team or in a sport like girls' discus or javelin or high jump than one in the average girl, after all.

About 1800 girls (half the school population) just have to suck it up for the greater good. And if a girl loses a NCAA sports scholarship because a male-bodied student took a place that might have been hers a few years ago on a tennis team or a soccer team or lacrosse team, well that girl should be pleased that her oh-so-right-on feminist sisters have enabled such a giant leap for mankind.

sleepingdragons · 03/06/2018 01:53

Mankind indeed Sad

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 01:54

Nothing will change.

The TRA movement in the US has high school districts by the short and curlies. They are vociferous and extremely litigious, and have turned into a juggernaut. The odd school district has tried fighting back through the courts but have had their asses handed to them on a plate.

While I admire much about President Obama and applaud most legislation of his presidency, it was his Justice Department that inaugurated this sea change, eviscerating Title IX by making the term 'gender' equivalent to the term 'sex' and asserting equal protection for gender that unfortunately will always have the effect of throwing 'sex' under the bus, and for that I consider his legacy deeply flawed.

ReliefOfChaos · 03/06/2018 07:05

What school are you in that they still have PE five days a week at 14?

Pratchet · 03/06/2018 07:14

Math, if HRC had won, women would be in a worse place in the US, don't you think. And round the world, in fact.

noeffingidea · 03/06/2018 07:25

how would you even know a transwoman is trans unless you look up their skirt!!!
Give over, and stop treating us as if we're stupid. You might need to see someone's genitals to decide if they're male or female, but the vast majority of the human race doesn't need to.

ReliefOfChaos · 03/06/2018 07:25

Oh, America. Nvm.

Did see an interesting piece on 'Who gets to look at you in the locker room' a while back. Apparently there was a mass walkout in the 50's when schoolgirls decided they didn't want black girls looking at them. Then boys just stopped using showers in the 90's because they didn't want gay people looking at them. I need to try and track down the article...

Certainly here communal showers / changing are being phased out - seems to be an issue of religious sensitivity as well as the usual bigotry.

noeffingidea · 03/06/2018 07:32

Reliefofchaos it's racist and homophobic to equate race and sexual orientation with biological sex in this instant. But carry on showing us what you are really are.

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/06/2018 07:42

Relief
I’m not American but I don’t think this type of walk out would work. Different era and the tras have the upper hand. Not that I agree with the previous 2 walkouts..

Math
That is awful. I’ve read about it happening or that it’s going to happen. This is one of the things we are so afraid of in the U.K. and even without self Id, we see little protection for girls here and everyone rolling over. It appears there is none for your dd. Those poor girls. And of course no male bodied teen would identify as trans for spurious reasons. Hmm

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/06/2018 07:44

noeffingidea
That’s not what I got from Reliefs post at all. Are you saying you know they’re racist and homophobic?

strawberrypenguin · 03/06/2018 08:07

As only a female body can get pregnant then the term Female should be used.

This wouldn't exclude FtM trans if they did get pregnant as they ultimately have a female body. Not sure why they would get pregnant though - I assume they don't have piv sex as surely that wouldn't conform to their chosen gender?

noeffingidea · 03/06/2018 08:09

Mummy I may have misinterpreted
Apologies to Relief if I did.

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 08:21

If you're suggesting my daughter is a bigot for feeling mutinous about undressing in front of male-bodied teenagers, maybe the messages she has been receiving for so long about consent when it comes to her body should just be scrapped, ReliefOfChaos? Those messages seem to be causing problems for the transgirls and transwomen after all.

The one in five girls who have been molested or sexually assaulted by the time they are teens could probably just take some valium, the better to get over themselves and get on with performing the feminine role of taking care of the needs of others instead of speaking up for their own needs for a safe space.

It would actually solve many problems for transpeople if everyone else would just suspend disbelief and everything they have been told and everything they have experienced about life.

RabbitsAreTasty · 03/06/2018 08:57

relief Any boy who pushes to be let into spaces where girls are getting naked should be immediately disqualified from entry. He has demonstrated a poor attitude to girls' boundaries and should therefore be excluded.

If he does not want to change with the boys then it is up to the adults to decide whether to:
(1) make him with the boys anyway (like would have happened with the girls but now it only affects one person) or
(2) not participate (as has been suggested to girls who object) or
(3) change in a separate space.

Why on earth would the school/club not offer (3) and resort to (1) or (2) if the lad turns out to be obsessed with getting into the girls no matter what?