to wonder how I was supposed to use this toilet?

[sleepingdragons]

DD and I got drenched in the rain today, proper torrential rain! DD's skirt was soaked through.

We were on our way to meet family for lunch, so we headed there and I took DD to the toilet.

DD was freezing. My plan had been to strip her bottom half to her pants in the ladies and hold her skirt under the hand dryer for as long as I could.

But when I got to the toilet I found it was unisex. There were a bunch of cubicles coming off a busy communal sink area, with a couple of middle aged men in there when I got there, and more men coming and going while we were there.

What would you do in this situation? What do you think I should have done?

Also - AIBU to think that restaurants and cafes are going to use the new trend for unisex facilities as a cost cutting measure, so we're going to see loads more of this kind of thing?

I find this concern about a 5 year old being in her pants in front of men a bit bogus - it sounds to me like a rather clumsy thought experiment to introduce some goady trans bashing. First, many men are fathers and will have seen a girl in pants many times before. Second, do you never allow your tinies to run around in a swimming costume in a pool? It's the same thing.

I love that 95% of the posters in this thread for the measure of OP instantly and didn’t take any of her faux wide eyed ‘but this is just about what you would have done in this situation honestly, oh and of course it’s related to self ID’ apart from the odd one who clearly also holds similar views to the OP desperately defending her.

Well done MN, you’ve redeemed yourself a bit today compared to the usual bile that’s spewed about this topic.

Next time try make it less obvious OP, but I know it’s fine line between being believably about something else while also highlighting the self ID/male gaze stuff so I can see you tried your very best 😊🏅

TheShapeOfEwe agree with everything you’ve posted on this thread, you’re on fire 🔥

WalkingOnAFlashlightBeam thank you, you too! 😘

Presumably dd was wearing knickers so at age 5 she could stand there while you dried her skirt a bit. It's not like she was in sexy undies or a thong - more like swim wear. Do you think all the men were looking? Really odd - I'd be pleased that dh would have been able to take our 3 DDs to the loo rather than it all being on me.

I think what baffles me is that the OP genuinely seems to think she has been massively inconvenienced and felt vulnerable in some way in what would be a total non event for most people.

Some people are so nervous/unsure of themselves they simply can’t cope with an unforeseen situation, and even when they do actually cope fine need to seek lots of reassurance from others that they did the right thing, what could have been done differently etc.

It’s either that or it’s been wildly exaggerated for effect as a way to start a self ID bunfight.

No, I'm saying that we're used to having single sex facilities, not unisex ones.

Well, we can get used to anything. The fact that we're used to something does not impose an obligation on businesses to provide it.

Can I just point out that OP did actually have a spare pair of her son's shorts with her which she did use so the whole thing is rather redundant

Next time try make it less obvious OP

Erm. If I was trying to do a stealth self ID thread, do you not think I would have:

a. not used my user name which blatantly has loads of comments in the FWR section!
b. not mentioned my position on self ID.

0/10 for sleuthing!

what baffles me is that the OP genuinely seems to think she has been massively inconvenienced and felt vulnerable in some way in what would be a total non event for most people.

I don't think I've been "massively inconvenienced" nor did I feel vulnerable. But it was the first time I'd spent any length of time in a unisex toilet and it did feel weird.

And it got me thinking about how we're bound to see more toilets like this.

When I imagined unisex toilets with cubicles when people talk about them in self ID discussions, I'd imagined separate cubicles with hand basins inside them.

I hadn't imagined a toilet like this, where men and women are all at the sinks together, although it makes total sense financially, so I imagine we'll see more of them.

I wasn't standing there feeling pissed off, vulnerable, stroppy or any of the other emotions people here have projected on to me.

While in the toilet I was mainly having a laugh and a chat with DD, drying soggy clothes and smiling apologetically at people while I got out of their way. But while doing these things I was aware the set up felt really weird and it got me thinking about this kind of set up.

I was also aware that I'd changed my behaviour as it didn't feel appropriate (gone back for the shorts) and that got me thinking too. I like to think about stuff, doesn't mean I'm "stomping about" (another projection from earlier!)

Wow, so many of the posters on this thread seem to have an agenda.

"Women should be comfortable with men in their spaces. End of."

FFS

Hardly, because a unisex loo isn't a woman's space. You might just as well say how dreadful it is that women should be expected to be comfortable with men in swimming pools.

I have not read the full thread

I tend to read the first page and the last to see if i want to read the whole thing...and i dont think i do

However i would just like to address this comment

So what was making you feel “weird” was washing your hands next to men?

I am 48 years old and have never been in a unisex loo...i have washed my hands next to a man in unisex washing facilities and it felt weird because i have never done it before

I certainly didn't feel i could check my makeup or hair in the mirror

And no i wasnt upset, or frightened or worried or anything and i coukd undoubtedly get used to it.....but as it was the first time in 48 years it did indeed 'feel weird'

Sorry zzzzzzz not a true response to your post

I was just trying to say that even just the hand washing could feel weird

Rufustheyawningreindeer thanks, this exactly.

It's funny the number of (I assume) women on this thread implying they never change their behaviour when men are around, e.g. they feel comfortable doing intimate things like put make up on in front of strange men.

I would have thought it was fairly common for women to prefer a bit of privacy from men for "doing your toilette".

Either AIBU-ites are a very robust bunch or some of them aren't being totally truthful about their feelings on this.

That's a point - I think people have forgotten what the word "toilet" means. It doesn't just mean "think you pee in", it means "the process of washing oneself, dressing, and attending to one's appearance".

Toilets have always had this dual purpose.

If they were just for going to the toilet and washing your hands - why would they have mirrors?

Since when has putting make up on been an "intimate thing"?! Give over.

I wouldn't give a second thought to my five year old girl if l had one, standing in her pants in this situation with men and women mulling around. I take the view that an absolutely vast majority of men (and women for that matter) would in no way be looking at her in an inappropriate way Plus obviously with a parent there with her too making it even more a perfectly safe situation.
I wouldn't otoh leave a five year old in their pants alone for five minutes.
Being a responsible parent is a lot of risk assessment and l wouldn't consider this situation to be of any significant risk whatsoever.

I think all the threads on MN expressing disgust around women putting on make up on public transport (not because it's intimate but because it's perceived as grubby) suggest many, many women are happy to put make up on in front of men.

wouldn't leave for five minutes in a loo alone of any kind l meant

I've just been to the US for first time and the toilet cubicles all seem to have a half inch gap around the door. Never seen anything like it. If you want privacy, then you have to choose your spot wisely!

This type of unisex facility is very common in some parts of the world. It offers privacy where needed (the toilet cubicles) and a communal space to wash your hands. Seems to work just fine, as far as I can tell. Shrug.

I think all the threads on MN expressing disgust around women putting on make up on public transport (not because it's intimate but because it's perceived as grubby) suggest many, many women are happy to put make up on in front of men

Really? If women were putting make up on in public and no one batted an eyelid, I'd agree with you. But as people are getting upset about it, I think it kinda suggests the opposite.

The reason people are getting het up about it is because it's breaking social conventions. Most women do not put their make up on in public. They save it for home / toilets / private spaces. These are places men aren't, unless you're in a relationship with them or related to them.

I suspect a lot of the women complaining would feel comfortable doing make up - or at least retouching - in a public toilet. So what's the difference with a public space? One difference is, the public space has men in it too.

I know lots of women who wouldn't feel comfortable doing their make up in front of strange men. FWIW I'm not one of them, but AFAIK it's a fairly ordinary attitude - isn't it?

ISpentTheDayInBed I couldn't believe they were real first time I heard about them.

Why do they make it like that? Don't people mind?

No, it's a bizarre attitude.