To not want to stay with PIL?

[Shanners123]

We had our first baby 5 weeks ago and both sets of new grandparents are over the moon. We live 40mins drive from my parents and (a really horrible) 5.5hour drive from my PIL. The PIL have seen the baby twice (drove up for the weekend when baby was 1 week and then at a funeral 2 weeks later) due to the distance, whereas my parents see the baby a couple of times a week. Naturally the PIL cannot wait to see the baby this coming weekend, when we'll be down visiting Fri - Mon. My problem is I really can't stand my MIL. She talks CONSTANTLY (this isn't an exaggeration), about anything and everything, every thought that crosses her mind. She's unintentionally patronising and by the way she talks is the subject expert on everything. I'm quite an introvert, I speak when there is something to say and enjoy smart conversation. As a result she annoys the life out of me and I avoid talking to her or being the focus of her conversation when possible. We have a polite relationship from my perspective, because she's never truly engaged with me in any real way so I just listen to her ramblings when I have to and tell her the bare minimum because she picks up anything I say and adds her "subject expert" knowledge to it. I am never rude to her and I act interested in what she says, but every visit it gets harder because one way conversations make for a very boring experience!
We're mostly going down because my OHs grandparents are too old to travel, and they're lovely so I'm looking forward to them seeing the baby. His uncle has a beautiful brand new house 5 mins drive from where they all live, which is used as a holiday let. I asked my OH to check if its free for us to stay this weekend, and apparently now my MIL is very upset that we're not staying with them. Their house is not suitable IMO and I want to be able to relax at night knowing if the baby is screaming my MIL isn't going to be knocking on the door offering tips or help. I'm breastfeeding so at home I quite often sit with my boobs out relaxing with the baby so I'd like our own space for the privacy to do this, and also to retreat to when MIL gets to be too much for me. We have stayed with them on all previous trips but now we have a baby I want to start setting boundaries. We're our own little family in my mind now and I don't think it's unreasonable to be treated as such. I know it's because she's scared it will limit her time with baby, but he's only 5 weeks and not the most interactive anyhow!

Not wanting to stay at my PILs house and opting to stay in a house 5 min drive away... AIBU?

But his dw had just given birth, his dm hasn't.
He made vows to dw not his dm.
He isn't choosing, he is supporting his dw when she says she would be more comfortable at the uncle's.

reluctant londoner i believe the advice is that if they are asleep they can stay in car seat for max 90 mins. 20 mins is ridiculous a lot of people drive longer than that home from the hospital.

Our dd was born in sept and we let in lawa make the first few visits here (they live about 3 hrs drive away) we travelled up there in february for the first time. By this time we knew roughly when she would sleep and for how long so we planned our trip around that and stopped once for lunch and a little later just to stretch our legs. It was ok but she did cry for parts of the journey. I would suggest sitting next to your baby in the back so you can keeo an eye on their breathing which I think is the potential issue with car seats. I don't know exactly when 'newborn' stops but would guess 3 months.

I personally wouldn't do a long journey before 3 months because all of my babies would have cried and cried and got distressed. Perhaps prep your parents that they may have to come down at first. However the OP has elderly grandparents in law to visit and has a genuine reason to have to do the journey so it's just a case if 90 mins max between stops and sitting next to baby if possible to keeo an eye on them

Of course GC will hopefully love spending time alone with their GP, but isn’t that usually as they get older, and much more led by the child?

I think it’s U to demand or expect a right to alone time with any baby except your own personally.

I can see this from both sides to be honest. My MIL is a talker and like a pp said I needed to lie down in a quiet room following any visits it was bloody draining. DH got it as it was a similar irritation to him.

I think the way to do it is to stay at the uncles house, claiming breast feeding/space etc BUT maybe make it clear that you will be spending lots of time with them. Could your DH take the baby and spend some time with her the three of them for a couple of hours. I know my MIL really liked that and to be honest I was happy to get away, and she really wanted that alone time with her son and his son. However it is really early days so I could understand if you didn't want that - but maybe by making it clear you will be there a lot would go some way to making her less upset.

I think YABU. My parents are also close by and ILs a few hours away. I'd rather be in a hotel for my own comfort, but we always stay with them when we visit. Over the years, despite only visiting every few months, they have formed a really close bond with dc. They adore each other, and I'm not sure you could facilitate the same relationship by staying nearby and popping in for the odd visit. When we stay with them they do stories, bath time, long walks etc. And of course the close bond means that we have someone else to call on in an emergency (e.g. when dc1 was hospitalised and my dp were on holidays, we relied on them heavily). I don't think dc can have too many people in their lives that love them. I am really glad now that my dc have developed this bond.
I'm also curious how a house can be unsuitable for a 5 week old breastfed baby. Surely all you need is somewhere to sleep. Unless you come back and drip feed that they are chain smokers and breed unruly pitbulls.

I have this problem too. My MIL gets worse every year with the constant chat about herself, lack of interest or empathy for anyone else, and judgemental and somewhat rude statements. I have not found a way to avoid staying at her house yet (much as we need our own space) - she gets really upset if we even give a sniff of a mention of staying in a holiday lodge instead of with her. So now I do 3-4 nights max at her house. it is too draining and stressful otherwise

YANBU.

Also, are you the long-lost sister of my DH, because my in laws are the same!!

I think this is one of those posts where people who haven't been through it may not get it. It is really psychologically undermining to have to deal with constant unsolicited advice. It makes you feel terrible about yourself, like you are constantly being judged as failing and incompetent. Whether it is well-meant or not does not really matter.

I am totally doing the same as you - will be staying in a holiday let close by to get some joy and space away from them when we visit.

I would take the issue in a very different way.
I would ensure that you have some time off when you are staying at MIL.
Let her look after the (sleeping!) baby whilst you go and lie down/have a walk nearby or in the garden, read a book.
Ask her for some help so she feels valued.
Ask your DH to step up. Surely he is nearby when she is talking to you so he can tell her straight when her advice is unwanted/baby is crying during the night etc...

I think that being an introvert, it’s fair enough to want to peace and quite SOME TIME. But wanting to draw the line the way you do means that you are going to either create a lot of tension with your ML or a lot of tension with your DH (who will want to see his parents too, will want his dcs to have a relationship with her etc...).
Just think, how would you feel of your DH was saying he is uncomfortable to see your parents and that he wants your sutrail your visits to the /their visits because they are just hard work? Your PIL are still your DH parents. You also need to respect that.

And all that has nothing to do with your parents seeing your baby more often. Your relationhsip with them is separate from your relationship with your ILs.

Will you have space to go and lie down somewhere away from everyone else if you stay at their house?

If so, it might actually be less stressful to stay there.

Imagine you stay at the uncle's house. You wake up in the morning, you're just trying to have breakfast, get showered, sort baby out etc, and you've already got PIL descending on you, or sending texts or calling to check what time you're going over to theirs. They will either arrive before you're ready or you'll feel pressured into going over there before you're ready because they'll be desperate to spend time with the baby.

Then you've got a long day ahead of you. Either they're at yours and they're constantly getting in your space and in the way of everything (and you or DH probably feel like you need to be cooking and making cups of tea etc whilst they want to hold the baby), or you're at theirs and you find you haven't got something you need, or you really want to go and lie down and get some space, but you don't feel you can and haven't really got anywhere to go.

At the end of the day you are desperate to go back to the uncle's house, or for them to leave, so you can get on with your bedtime routine, but they want to spin it out for longer.

That sounds quite stressful, to be honest.

If you go and stay at theirs and you have a room to go and lie down in if things all get a bit much, they can sort all the domestic stuff, they get time with the baby, and you have space in their house that you can retreat to when you need to.

Wouldn't that be better?

Thank you all for your comments so far! A pretty mixed bag.

I agree "smart" conversation was a bad term to use - to elaborate I am not expecting us to discuss theories of the universe.. But she spends hours telling me gossip about her neighbours and people I don't know /have never met, which I don't find interesting or necessary.

My OH finds his mother hard work too, purely because of the relentless talking, so he understands where I'm coming from. When we have dinner with their family for instance his dad, brother & him all zone out and I find I have to keep eye contact and listening, because no one else is! Like a few of you have highlighted, after hours and hours without let-up it's draining.
The only people I've witnessed achieving a two way conversation with her are her family, siblings and a neighbour, all of whom are happy to talk over her and interrupt her mid-stream. I haven't been able to do this as I'd feel too rude, so I let her go on.

I don't know how OP feels, so I'm in real danger of projecting here, but when I'm around my similar-sounding MIL, I feel psychologically suffocated. It is very difficult to put into words what it is like. I start by feeling bossed and undermined and inadequate, and then I feel angry and confused, and then after a few days I even start thinking about self-harm and/or flight - I just want to run away as far and as fast as I can. It is like time stands completely still, every hour lasts a day and internally I go into free-fall with a feeling that I just can't cope with another minute of it. I come from a family that denies my personhood, in the same way that the in laws do, so there is a lot of history about the way it makes me feel.

Like I said, I may be projecting- but sometimes it's not as simple as 'Just grin and bear it'.

Why do you need time on your own with the GC? Why can’t his/her parents be there too? What do you want to do or say that you don’t want them there for?

jesus, the paranoia! How do you manage any human interaction with this awful attitude?

Why don’t you don’t you zone out too?

I mean, it’s your MIL and therefore your DH mother. Why is it that you feel you have to keep up the c versatile and no one else does? Maybe because you do carry on being ‘invested’ in it and therefore they don’t have to??

You need your DH to support you there. And that means redirecting the conversation towards him rather than you form time to time.
Fwiw, you now have the perfect excuse to stop a conversation by having to go and look after your baby.
Let your DH handle the conversation with his mum.

Have you or DH talked to MIL about her talking too much?

It seems to me you are taking the passive aggressive route with her.

There are ways of coping with a chatterbox, have you tried any of them? You don't have to be rude, it can be done sensitively.

She's going to be in your life for another 30 years +, so why not make some changes now?

Having you guys visit for the day is very different to having a baby come to stay, the latter is much more special.

"I haven't been able to do this as I'd feel too rude, so I let her go on."

This is what I call The Politeness Trap. It works like this:

• Person A is constitutionally rude and overruns the boundaries of others on a regular basis
• Person B is not constitutionally rude and respects the boundaries of others.
• Person A uses person B's behaviour as a weakness against them. This can happen in several ways, e.g. inviting themselves to your house, criticising you in public, talking incessantly, whatever. The gambit is that person B is too polite to call them on it, so they get what they want.
• Person B is genuinely too polite and caves, while feeling bullied and manipulated inside.

The only way out of The Politeness Trap is to realise two things. Firstly, that person B is weaponising rudeness to manipulate and exert power , and secondly that the fact that they have been rude gives you licence to push back in a more forceful way than you otherwise normally would, to restate a boundary.

e.g. (This actually happened)

Context: I have just spoken about how stressful I am finding building work, and how the house is in a completely upside-down state.

MIL: To the table (which includes me, though she speaks as though I am absent). I am hoping my daughter-in-law invites me to the X Flower Show. I would love to go. (Rude, overstepping).
Me: We are in the middle of building work at the moment, and I'm not sure when we'll be finished so I'm afraid DH and I can't invite any guests until we have a spare bedroom. (Reasonable answer).
MIL: Oh, you'll be finished by then. I don't mind roughing it a bit, we don't mind that do we FIL? It's my birthday after all, you should say yes (manipulative)
Me: It is not convenient this year because of building work. (Change conversation).

Jeez, it sounds like some people want to control what their MILs are allowed to talk about now!

If your DH is finding them hard work, what does HE wan to do?
Does he want to stay at the uncle’s house or is he actually quite happy to spend that time with his parents (3 or 4 times a year only)?
How does he think that staying in another home use will help?

In effect, how much responsibility does he take in all that?
Atm we have your POV. They are hard work, you dont really want to be there.
What bout him, his POV and his view of solving the problem/making things easier?

I agree your DH needs to step up and engage his mother in conversation.

If you end up on the receiving end of one of her monologues feel free to yawn conspicuously and say "so sorry, just knackered at the moment with the new baby!" or excuse yourself to go to the toilet and spend a bit of time checking on the baby.

There are ways you can manage it without refusing to stay in their house, and unless you're about to start dripfeeding about other, far more unreasonable, things she does, it seems very unfair to deprive her of this much anticipated time with her grandchild just because she's a bit of a chatterbox who bores the arse off you.

I haven't been able to do this as I'd feel too rude, so I let her go on.

If you do what you always do then you'll get what you always get.

Just turn to someone else when she's in mid-flow and ask them a question.

Or have baby in lap and look at him, don't give MIL eye contact.

Isn't it just as well your MIL is a chatterbox if you're a quiet Perrin who doesn't talk much? It prevents those awful silences.

Person I mean.

YABU

My late FIL was a talker, who could drone on forever, but I learned to tune it out and just get on with what I was doing. But he absolutely adored my DC. From the moment he laid eyes on DC1 when he was 24 hours old, he was besotted. He used to come and stay with us for weekends sometimes, and once we had DC1 it was wonderful seeing them together. I could never have denied that relationship between them just because I found some of his conversation a bit much. Besides, once he had DC1 to interact with, it diverted him away from droning on to us. Maybe your MIL will be the same. But I'd at least give her a chance, and stay with her this time.

LoveInTokyo also brings up some good points.

I can't fathom out why if you dislike her she's much that you're not able to zone out. Surely it would be easy?

Just excuse yourself, get up and go in the garden, put the baby in the pram and get out of the house, you and DH plan some days out while you're there.

Or try butting in and making her give you space to talk.

I think that you are being unreasonable and very rude to ask abut the holiday let. Sorry but your PIL are family, you have to learn in life that not everyone is the same and respect that.

It is a few days a year.

Imagine if your child has a baby and doesn't want to come and stay with you- how would you feel?

jesus, the paranoia! How do you manage any human interaction with this awful attitude?

It’s a genuine question! I don’t think I’m paranoid and manage loads of human interaction, cheers - but if someone said to me, as they did upthread, I really want to take your baby out without you being there, i would ask why!