To think 'household income' is extremely unfair when assessing student finance.

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Thought this when eldest DD first went to Uni however just accepted that this was how it is. Now Dss2 who lives with us has been at Uni since September - has bought a friend Home for the long weekend and talking to him has made me realise just how terrible this system is and how it makes some kids especially from hard Home lives, struggle even more. It is a system designed to make the poor even poorer.

Dss2's friend 'Tom', lived with his mum since he was 2. Dad not in his life. Never paid maintenance doesn't even know where he lives or if he's even alive. When he was 15 his mum met a new man. For whatever reason Tom doesn't like his mums bf. Nevertheless, he moved in when Tom was 16. He says it didn't really bother him as by then he was living his own life , good social life etc, so to be fair he just doesn't really 'know' this man. Tom gets to 18 and gets a place at Uni. Applies for student finance. The application wants 'household income'. Mums boyfriend refuses. Says his finances are none of anyone's business. Sf write to him three times requesting the information. He refuses saying he doesn't even know the boy properly. Has 3 kids of his own he is paying CM for and wants nothing to do with Toms student loan.
Even if it was provided, because he is a high rate tax payer Tom would get the minimum loan.
Because his mums bf didn't supply the info. Tom gets minimum loan and a letter telling his 'parents' (!) how much they must contribute to his finance.

Mother was a TA on tax credits before meeting partner. Now she just has her income. No tc. Boyfriend is tight with money and expects mum to contribute half bills leaving her very little for the month and nothing for son at Uni. Boyfriend will not pay Tom anything. He is working two jobs in order to pay rent. His Uni work is suffering and he is thinking of chucking it in as so stressful. He has had some help from student welfare, but it's still very tough.

AIBU to think that either children are Adults at 18 and should ALL be entitled to a full loan and not have it based on the earnings of your mothers boyfriend ??
As Adults their entitlements should be judged on their own finances, no one else's. Regardless of their resident parents household income ? The loan is repaid anyway so where is the loss ?

Conversely DDs best friend has a maximum loan as her mum lives on spousal maintenance. However non resident dad is very wealthy and sends her £500a month. She doesn't need a job as very well off.

It's ridiculous. It expects parents to fund their children beyond 18 and many can't afford to do that.

These rules meant I had to stay at home instead of moving away to uni - I couldn't afford the rental costs and my dad couldn't afford to help me either.

The whole system is crap.

Same as @Nikita - when I went to Uni (many moons ago) my eligibility for grants and loans was based on my parents' income. However, they never contributed anything: I worked term-time and full-time in the holidays, and that is how I got through. Meanwhile, several friends who lived in single-parent households, but whose NRP was well-off, took the full available loan, sat it in a high-interest account for the duration of the four-year course, and then paid it off immediately after graduation. It's a shit system.

I agree. I think the loan should be assessed on those with a parental responsibility tbh.

The SF company should not concern themselves with boyfriends and girlfriends who have no obligation to the student in question.

jasjas

The higher Ed institutions my dd is looking at assess all students for burseries and scholarships, outstanding students are told on the day and it is based on merit, not means tested.

Would you still get the full maintenance and fee loans, if they gained financial assistance from the institution or another interested industry body.

*FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast
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Anyway , if a parent has uni in mind for their, perhaps they should do their homework before moving a lover in.

Words fail me ! . If you honestly believe that it is right and justified for a parent to an ADULT to have his or her relationship held hostage to their ADULT offsprings university finance , then I'm sorry but we are just going to have to disagree.

I have had the young man mentioned in the OP stay with me for the BH weekend. I hadn't met him before Friday so I don't know all the ins and outs of his life but the situation he's in has incensed me so much I have spoken to him several times now on the subject.
It transpires that his mother has been trying to do the right thing by NOT having a relationship for most of his life. There was a boyfriend when he was 7 or 8 but because Tom didn't like sharing his mum with anyone- she put her child first and told him she he wouldn't have a boyfriend until he was much older.

She met current partner when he was 13 but again DIDN'T bring him home. Only when Tom started to do things with mates and get his own life did she see more of him. Just before Toms 16th birthday he moved in. He has kids of his own he pays maintenance for and they now come over to stay/visit at Toms Home.
This is a woman who put her own life on hold for her child. Put her child first until he didn't need her so much. And now he's older an ADULT for God's sake ! He is being penalised because after nearly two decades living alone and bringing up a child- his mother has the audacity to find someone to share her life.

I find that appalling and grossly unjust .

@DrinkYourGreenTea "my parents worked hard" that phrase always gets trotted out and it boils my piss. Do you think teachers and nurses and single parents earning less than the threshold don't work hard?

Your parents were able to support you through uni, if you needed the money you had access to a loan. Why does it matter that other students parents but money in their kids banks account rather than pay their fees and living costs like your parents did? It's exactly the same.

@gillybeanz

Yes my DD may be eligible for a 1k bursary IF she gets AAB.

My Q was really in response to a PP who said that v poor students get all this help.... do they really????

I dont agree with free FE but the fee's and loans charged now are way too much and have completely swung to the other extreme.

A high skilled and educated workforce is essential if the UK is to break away from its low wage low skill economy and raise the taxes it needs to properly fund public services...... , perhaps the Government doesn't really want that? despite the rhetoric.

@ndjdbr I’m proud that my parents worked hard. Why you would resent someone’s being proud of their families achievements is beyond me. My mum is a teaching assistant so do not suggest that I’m somehow ignorant of lower wages.

You have misunderstood my points. There were students who had thousands of pounds from grandparents who then received loans and grants on top of this. I had no savings, no grant and minimal money from my parents. I shouldn’t have had to take a loan in order to receive a temporary amount of money that was nothing compared to what others got with loans and grants. A student shouldn’t have to enter unnecessary debt to even out inconsistencies and unfairness in the system.

@DrinkYourGreenTea I don't, it just sounded awfully like when people justify sky high ceo level wages and make catty remarks about people on benefits. But I've obviously misunderstood and I apologise for jumping to conclusions.

The thing is, if grandparents gifts etc counted towards it they would just not give them money but buy them things. And young people's parents would setup savings in their own names and transfer money to their DCs after student finance was sorted.

My Dad died when I was 18, do you think it would have been fair to take that inheritance into account and make me spend it when I wanted to use it for a house deposit after uni? I mean if he died when I was 22 would I have been morally obligated to use it to pay back student loan rather than anything else? How would that be fair? I don't feel like I had "extra" money, I just got it earlier than most because of awful circumstances.

I do understand what you are saying, but I don't think it's fair to be angry for it. It would be like someone being angry that someone's entitled to tax credits despite receiving very generous maintenance payments from an ex. And there will always be someone in the system who had it more unfair than you. Like some of the people described here who should have been entitled to a higher loan but got nothing because their parents were obstructive- so didn't go to uni at all.

On the other side of the coin, my debt is huge, it would have been about £6k more after 3 years if my grant had been a loan. I've worked solidly since leaving uni and barely made a dent in loan despite going to uni when fees were £3k not £9k. Be grateful you didn't have to take out loans and don't have £30k sat on your head.

DD gets the full loan for her fees plus the full maintenance loan - on a 3 year course racking up £18k a year in debt. We still need to help her out on occasion. Her halls cost around £120 a week which she pays each term but she still needs to run her car to get to placements. The first years insurance was eye watering but luckily this second year it's dropped a lot.

We've helped with food, petrol, car maintenance and clothing. And last year our household income was £14k. She has a sibling still at home and dp has a child he pays maintenance for. Our rent is £1k a month. Money is so tight for everyone. I wish I could help her more, I wish I could help all four of our kids more but there simply isn't enough to go round.

I am just thankful that by the time DSD goes to uni, my DD1 will be done with it and by the time DSD finishes, my DD2 will be going (if she goes) so we only ever have one in the system at a time. Because quite frankly we'd be on our knees otherwise. DD1 can't work at uni because of her placements but she does work p/t when she comes home.

It's a really bad system and while dp has a much better paid job now, it's still not enough to take her over the threshold but we can at least help her without feeling it too much.

How do you pay food, bills, travel etc for a full family on £2,000 for the whole year @Mycats?

I'm surprised his mother is interested in someone so cold and unsupportive. I agree that the loan should be based on the students' circumstances, not just the people who happen to be living in the house. I can see that some might try to trick the system though, with affluent parents who should be supporting them.

Its a shit system that disproportionately affects people from poorer households. Cost of living for students isnt cheap and even. With working plenty of students still struggle. The cost of books and materials necessary to the courses can be eye watering plus the tuition fees. I know you have to earn over a threshold before you pay back but just thinking about those figures puts people off.

They need to be married so he's nothing to Tom so Tom needs to appeal this man does not contribute towards him in anyway is not related to him don't know why Tom put him on his form in first place also what's Tom's mum say about her bf not signing form they take into consideration everything they pay out but again he is not his dad or step dad he's a random guy that he cant legally get money towards fees and they can't ask him to either help him appeal this pleade but seek abit of advice first

I agree it's not to do with "working hard".

I have two young adult children and I am actually pleased that they have not both decided to go to University.
My eldest is doing an IT cybersecurity apprenticeship ( so is studying while he works)Youngest is about to go to University to do nursing, - she will get a bursary because it's a nursing degree and won't have to pay back fees.

I have got off lightly.

Is your youngest in the UK @speakout?

Why did Mum's boyfriend even feature on the form?

to be honest, in this case , it would have been better to say that the mother was single. Sometimes honesty is not the best policy.
Anyway if my children were headed for uni , I would do my homework and find out what sort of person I was moving in to my house, first.
Sorry to sound harsh.

Tippexy yes , in the UK.

When I went to uni loan wasn't affected by income top up grants or bursaries were, my parents were not well off at all but I didn't qualify for those as just above the threshold. They worked overtime and helped out where they could, fees back then were only £1200 so nowhere near today's cost. However I had wealthy student counterparts whose parents funded their degrees plus rent, bills, allowances etc but still applied for full loan parents used it as property deposit or investment funding, and sold property after graduation for profit, and paid the loan off in full having essentially used it as a short term investment. It was this kind of appalling behaviour that led to a means tested system which disadvantages non traditional family set ups.

FASH yes this is what annoys me. We have a non traditional family set up. My dh has no children of his own, my DC live with us and have done for 8 years (that's how long we've been living together), they're 13/18.

My dh is paying for my daughter to go through uni yet her actual father is paying diddly squat and is being resistant to helping because there's no legal requirement. He has paid child maintenance over the years but that has been a pitiful amount so we haven't been able to save it towards uni costs.

If I die or we get divorced (not saying this will happen) then he will have paid for her rather than being able to overpay into his pension. He's more than happy to fund her and we're currently looking to where we can make cutbacks but I don't think it's right that he's doing it and her father pays nothing.

I am taking steps to up exp cm payments and will go via the cms or whatever it's called for my youngest and then give her a portion of that so she can live reasonably comfortably whilst at uni.

@speakout In that case I would advise her/you to check on the position regarding university fees for nursing degrees, and the bursaries. Nursing BScs now attract the £9,250 p.a. fees and student loans, and it does have to be paid back, albeit very gradually indeed.

Tippexy don't worry- I have been over all that with a fine toothcomb.

No fees need to be paid and an annual bursary award of £6578- which doesn't have to be paid back either.

Yes it’s unfair. I’ve only had experience of it the other way. Kids live with their mum on low income who is separated from a wealthy father who gives them money/equipment/ allowances whilst they claim the full whack of support for low income families.

Tippexy in fact she already has her awards for September.
First monthly bursary payment will be in her account on the 2nd September.