To think 'household income' is extremely unfair when assessing student finance.

[fontofnoknowledge]

Thought this when eldest DD first went to Uni however just accepted that this was how it is. Now Dss2 who lives with us has been at Uni since September - has bought a friend Home for the long weekend and talking to him has made me realise just how terrible this system is and how it makes some kids especially from hard Home lives, struggle even more. It is a system designed to make the poor even poorer.

Dss2's friend 'Tom', lived with his mum since he was 2. Dad not in his life. Never paid maintenance doesn't even know where he lives or if he's even alive. When he was 15 his mum met a new man. For whatever reason Tom doesn't like his mums bf. Nevertheless, he moved in when Tom was 16. He says it didn't really bother him as by then he was living his own life , good social life etc, so to be fair he just doesn't really 'know' this man. Tom gets to 18 and gets a place at Uni. Applies for student finance. The application wants 'household income'. Mums boyfriend refuses. Says his finances are none of anyone's business. Sf write to him three times requesting the information. He refuses saying he doesn't even know the boy properly. Has 3 kids of his own he is paying CM for and wants nothing to do with Toms student loan.
Even if it was provided, because he is a high rate tax payer Tom would get the minimum loan.
Because his mums bf didn't supply the info. Tom gets minimum loan and a letter telling his 'parents' (!) how much they must contribute to his finance.

Mother was a TA on tax credits before meeting partner. Now she just has her income. No tc. Boyfriend is tight with money and expects mum to contribute half bills leaving her very little for the month and nothing for son at Uni. Boyfriend will not pay Tom anything. He is working two jobs in order to pay rent. His Uni work is suffering and he is thinking of chucking it in as so stressful. He has had some help from student welfare, but it's still very tough.

AIBU to think that either children are Adults at 18 and should ALL be entitled to a full loan and not have it based on the earnings of your mothers boyfriend ??
As Adults their entitlements should be judged on their own finances, no one else's. Regardless of their resident parents household income ? The loan is repaid anyway so where is the loss ?

Conversely DDs best friend has a maximum loan as her mum lives on spousal maintenance. However non resident dad is very wealthy and sends her £500a month. She doesn't need a job as very well off.

It’s a stupid system. I got the minimum as my parents earned more. I however had to get two jobs and do full time hours alongside in order to support myself.

It’s flawed but I seem to remember a friend years and years ago whose parents were divorced. Her mother had remarried. It was all amicable. DH1 and DH2 were both very high earners. Both looked after my friend in a parent capacity and both gave money generously.

However she had a full grant (showing my age here and I think that this was because they took neither man’s income into consideration.

In order to combat abuse of the system, they’ve shat on people like Tom. However also, there are children of high earners who refuse to give them a penny. Another friends dad earnt plenty (higher rate tax) and friend not eligiable for grant. However, dad refused to contribute a single penny to university finances. So that friend was also screwed.

Very difficult problem.

Tom can declare that he is estranged and get extra support.
I didn't go to university because my parents refused to give the information needed to get me a grant.

Very unfair, poor lad I hope he doesn't chuck it in, he doesn't need financial pressures as well as academic ones.

I wonder if the current system could be challenged in court?

I’ve just looked up what happens if parents refuse to contribute and it says basically get a job or tough you can’t go, and I would think even a part time job would be impossible on some courses like medicine.

At 18 years old parents shouldn’t be able to prevent you going to uni, but that is what will happen for some, for example with controlling parents or parents who don’t see the value of university or who are just against any kind of debt.

@Thorsday I am pretty sure there’s a form you can fill in to get them to take the current financial year into account rather than basing it on circumstances from 2/3 years ago?

It’s a flawed system but why is Tom’s mum with a man that would make her child suffer?
For me that’s a deal breaker
My dh has 2 kids from his first marriage but treats my kids brilliantly and we all work hard as parents as we have 3 kids out of 4 at uni.

YANBU, it's ridiculous.

If all parents were willing and able to support their children, it might work. As a teacher, I've heard many stories from 6th formers. One very clever young man a few years ago was unable to afford uni because he had several siblings, but student finance is assessed the same as if he was an only child. Another student has parents who are rich but not a fan of education, and didn't want their money "wasted" on university.

When I went, the fees you paid were based on parental/household income. So I needed to pay full fees due to their income, however it was me that paid it, my parents paid nothing towards fees. V odd system.

Mrskeats but conversely why should a parents new partner be expected to fund an adult through university?

He’s probably already contributing to a mortgage, bills, food and niceties so it seems unfair that he is also expected to finance a young adult through a choice they have made.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s great when a step parent steps up but it seems inherently unfair that the government want young adults to be adults when it suits them, but dependents when it doesn’t.

Hi - we are having a similar problem.
My daughter is about to go into her second year at Uni.
My husband (her step-father) and I jointly earn what the Government would class a decent income (?). We too have a mortgage which costs a fortune for a small terraced three bedroom, two other children and a baby on the way. My daughter received the lowest amount student loan and we are expected to pay for her accommodation - as the loan barely covers food and basic needs. *Worth noting, she is not a party animal thankfully, and also works a part time job.
So far this year we have had to find £12000! This covered her first year halls and her deposit and rent for next year. We have had to remortgage some of the money, and save everything we can for the rest.
My middle son is already saying he feels he has no choice but to not attend Uni as he sees us struggling and will likely do a higher level apprenticeship instead.
Needless to say, her actual ‘dad’ refuses to contribute anything towards her University fees - stating it’s a ‘life choice’!

DP earns below the threshold so my DD1 gets the full loan but imagine that he didn't? She is not his child. He has two children of his own and I have two. So if for example DP earned £63k a year and we had four children between us going through uni, none of them would be eligible for a full loan and he would be responsible for supporting all four on his wage as well as keeping our home running. It's a ridiculous system that takes absolutely nothing else into account such as other siblings at home, the household outgoings, disabled members of the family that are being supported etc.

I agree that all applying for uni should be allowed to apply for a full loan. We live in a world where blended families are very common now.

"Tom" can't just declare himself estranged from his parents to qualify for a full loan. You need supporting evidence, meaning letters from your GP, school and social worker. SLC are really thorough, if you're applying from the same address as your parents, there are transfers to/from them in your bank account, or you're suddenly estranged upon applying for university then that will invalidate your application. The other choice is to apply as an independent student, but you have to be able to prove your parents have not financially supported you in the last 3 years (any money whatsoever, from the age of 14/15 if you're applying straight out of school), or you're married in which case they look at your partners income instead, or if you have dependants (so your own child who lives with you or you can prove you are a carer for somebody eg. a disabled parent).

Don't know the answers to setting up a truly reasonable / realistic system, but do know that there have been problems for a very long time.

My mother, first in family to go to university, did 2 years before she gave up because she couldn't afford to stay on. Her parents were supposed to contribute a certain amount, and would only pay enough to cover her hall fees I think. She had travel costs (London) let alone books, clothing, shoes etc. She couldn't get work - her father had to give permission until she was 21 and wouldn't. They had in fact tried hard to insist she left school at 14 to help in their shop, unlike her brothers.

In her own mother's generation, there were apparently women who never married in large part because they had loans for university that had to be paid off, thus had to keep working to pay them off, thus never married because that was still a time when you left your job on marriage ...

Im a lone parent with 2 sons both at uni...im on a very low salary so my 2 get the full loan....my ex husband also gives each son £250 a month direct to them...my eldest also has a job on campus..
They manage ok but i dont know what would happen if my ex stopped giving tgem the money.

Tom’s mum needs to leave his step dad.

However, it is a scandal that the system doesn’t recognise this is the reality for some people.

Tom could live independently for a year or two and then apply based on his income? That’s what someone I know did? Plus it gives him time to save a bit of a cushion of cash as well - I was so glad I worked for a year before university, it made me more mature and gave me enough savings to make it an easier experience - I’m one of four so my parents income doesn’t spread as far as the assessment might assume it would.

My mother disowned me but was still married to my df, she didn’t want me to go to university was a waste of of time in her opinion. She stopped talking to me when I went to college and we haven’t had a relationship since.

She signed a letter to confirm she disowned me and I got letters from my college and doctors to support my loan application. My df was classed as a single parent so I got maximum loan. She wouldn’t give me a penny for uni, I’m sure step parents could do something similar to declare they won’t pay.

It an utterly crazy system. Why should the parents income have any bearing on what the students should get? The students owe the debt, so it should be on their own income. As usually they have just come out of school, their income is zero. We are just doing this with our two (a bit late, I know) and it is infuriating they need to know so much financial info.

Don't even get me started on the interest they are charged

i had a friend who's dad did not want his to to go to university but to start to work for the grand dad's company so refused to provide financial information and any support for the years he studied to become a doctor rather then the 20K+ he gave to his 3 daugthers to go to university (he was not against university he wanted his son to follow in his and his fathers footsteps to work in the family company)

So my friend struggled studying medicine while holding down a full time job to support himself (his physical and mental health suffered termidously) It is a totally unfair system at 18 you should get full loan amount rather then minimum simply because your "parents" cannot or wont support you.

He is estranged from his father refused to let him attend his graduation and basically wants nothing to do with his father has not only did he not support him he actually put massive road blocks in his way (basically said he's moved out for university and is now not welcome back for summer + stealing his car aka his grand dad bought him a car to get to placements his dad towed it and put it somewhere "safe" as Manchester is too high risk in crime for a car).

He even came to our flat and shouted at him saying has he not learnt that he has made the wrong decision and he should rightful come work with the family company.

He was such a horrid small minded man and the system let him further pile on the abuse / sabotage attempts because let me say 3k did not even cover half a term of rent in the university but thats all he was entitled too yet the scum bag father gave all his older sisters enough money so they did not even need to get a loan (he was very very rich it was not that he could not support he would not support )

He has very little to do with his family anymore and they wonder why he wants nothing to do with them apparently as all this was meant to be "character building".

Tom can’t wait for the system to change can he?
This is what we have rightly or wrongly so we have to step up as parents or stepparents. If you don’t want to help then don’t marry someone with kids.
The stepfather is horrible to his partner too so everyone loses.
I want my kids and step kids to get qualified so they have opportunities.

We fell foul of this system last year. My partner had his own business but was declared bankrupt (long story and not completely his fault) in 2015. Student Finance wanted audited accounts for the year he went bankrupt and there wasn't any. Our son got the minimum loan and I have scrimped all year to try and pay for his rent and food. His rent costs for a tiny little room were the same as my mortgage. His Dad now works part time as a bar man. It's been a huge struggle.

MrsKeats I cannot agree. 'Toms' mums partner has three children, For whom he pays both maintenance and mortgage. He also pays bills at Toms mums home. Why on earth should his mum leave her partner ? LTB isn't the answer to every situation. !

If I had just moved in with a man with a teenage son - who didn't want a relationship with me for no other reason (as far as I can work out) than he is 'tidy' and I'd only met a year ago.. maybe 2 . I would also NOT be inclined to become liable for his student loan !. My spare money would be going into a pot for my own children's university costs.

... and women should be entitled to have relationships with whoever they wish without the fear that the chosen partner becoming liable for their ADULT child's costs.

Yanbu

So it's a unanimous YANBU.

@fontofnoknowledge maybe toms stepdad should of held of moving in then.