To think 'household income' is extremely unfair when assessing student finance.

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Thought this when eldest DD first went to Uni however just accepted that this was how it is. Now Dss2 who lives with us has been at Uni since September - has bought a friend Home for the long weekend and talking to him has made me realise just how terrible this system is and how it makes some kids especially from hard Home lives, struggle even more. It is a system designed to make the poor even poorer.

Dss2's friend 'Tom', lived with his mum since he was 2. Dad not in his life. Never paid maintenance doesn't even know where he lives or if he's even alive. When he was 15 his mum met a new man. For whatever reason Tom doesn't like his mums bf. Nevertheless, he moved in when Tom was 16. He says it didn't really bother him as by then he was living his own life , good social life etc, so to be fair he just doesn't really 'know' this man. Tom gets to 18 and gets a place at Uni. Applies for student finance. The application wants 'household income'. Mums boyfriend refuses. Says his finances are none of anyone's business. Sf write to him three times requesting the information. He refuses saying he doesn't even know the boy properly. Has 3 kids of his own he is paying CM for and wants nothing to do with Toms student loan.
Even if it was provided, because he is a high rate tax payer Tom would get the minimum loan.
Because his mums bf didn't supply the info. Tom gets minimum loan and a letter telling his 'parents' (!) how much they must contribute to his finance.

Mother was a TA on tax credits before meeting partner. Now she just has her income. No tc. Boyfriend is tight with money and expects mum to contribute half bills leaving her very little for the month and nothing for son at Uni. Boyfriend will not pay Tom anything. He is working two jobs in order to pay rent. His Uni work is suffering and he is thinking of chucking it in as so stressful. He has had some help from student welfare, but it's still very tough.

AIBU to think that either children are Adults at 18 and should ALL be entitled to a full loan and not have it based on the earnings of your mothers boyfriend ??
As Adults their entitlements should be judged on their own finances, no one else's. Regardless of their resident parents household income ? The loan is repaid anyway so where is the loss ?

Conversely DDs best friend has a maximum loan as her mum lives on spousal maintenance. However non resident dad is very wealthy and sends her £500a month. She doesn't need a job as very well off.

I agree that the 30 year rule must go. It is unfair and does not take into account capital, so someone could spend a lifetime earning a small amount or nothing but be banking inheritances etc. I agree that the debt could be collected from people’s estates.

Actually my friends partner has just moved in with her. I bet no ones pointed out to her that her partners wage may have an impact on her DCs uni loans. Maybe I should tell her to kick him out!

I'm happy to sign and promote a petition. It'll be more productive than ranting to myself or anyone who enters my kitchen. And DS isn't adversely affected.

My ds worked for 3 years before going to university so he was assessed on his own income which meant he got full bursary. Also did nhs course so no fees to pay. Finished degree with no debt.

It's funny really how slow boiling the discontent is

so it could be a situation with debts run up by students and debts for care homes run up by the elderly ( all living longer , so needing expensive care ) will all come out of estates, if they have a home to sell of course - but who is going to buy these expensive homes?.. sometimes its best not to think too hard as it will make you a bit depressed about how things could go.

Do you have to have the maintenance loan if you live with parents, if you take the loan for fees?
Or can you take one of them and not the other?

quite honestly the mother needs to kick the 'stepfather' out.

I have a friend who wishes to get married, but is putting it off and keeping separate houses until her son has been through uni.

The fundamental question is why do any Adults only qualify for a loan that the ADULT will be liable to pay back based on the notional idea of what the ADULTS parents earn ?

When is a child not a child? The governments answer is seemingly when they they suppose the parents can/want/able to pay. Someone with 1 child and average income no mortgage is going to be far better off than someone with three kids and a house to pay for. Even though the latter may earn twice as much.

It's bollocks. It's unfair and MUST be affecting the chances of a gaining the most from university education when those with full loan / parents able (and agreeing ) to pay can use all their time for study when those with no parental top up have to work up to 40hrs a week depending on where their accommodation is.

anyway ....in the 'good old days', parents could (and did) put their child through private school, and then wangle them a full grant by having their accountant massage their income down....AND have them sign on in the holidays from their free uni.
I honestly think the system is way fairer now.

Does anyone know if I'm allowed to put a petition on here to ask the government to reassess the system. ?

anyway ....in the 'good old days', parents could (and did) put their child through private school, and then wangle them a full grant by having their accountant massage their income down....AND have them sign on in the holidays from their free uni.
I honestly think the system is way fairer now.

How is it fair that a step parent OR in fact a newly moved in partner ends up liable for your child's education?
How is it fair that your parents love life is dictated by government expecting your partner choice to pay for your child.

How is it fair that ANY ADULT has their chances of a university education dictated by their parents relationship when YOU are the one liable to pay it back.

Just because something crap 30 yrs ago has been replaced by something equally crap doesn't make it ok. It just makes it a bigger pile of shit.

actually no, it is a much smaller pile of shit IMO.
Previously , over privileged students were being subsided through the system, while others were essentially excluded.
Anyway , if a parent has uni in mind for their, perhaps they should do their homework before moving a lover in.

The system is awful.

I went to uni a few years ago and stayed living at home. During my first and some of my second year, my dad had a well-paid job and my mum was also working. I didn't apply for a student loan and wasn't entitled to a grant. I had some money and my parents gave me some money for clothes etc. and bus fare. My dad lost his job near the end of my second year and got a dramatically lower-paid job a few months later. I applied for grants from student finance and the uni but I could only get one if I got a student finance loan...and I didn't want to be in debt unecessarily.

I know so many students who got grants because they're parents were on low wages but these students had thousands of pounds in savings from grandparents.

It's not the loans that bothers me. But it's the free money. Some students (like Tom) have to scrape by, working and managing studies and then some get free money that they spend on nights out and luxuries.

@DrinkYourGreenTea grants have been scrapped. And if you could afford uni with no loan at all it's a bit rich of you to complain about people getting grants.

I think it is the right sysyem and works in favour of poorer kids because they can borrow more than the richer ones out of a finite pot

Font I think there is a petitions topic, but if you start it off in Chat or AIBU then you'll get some Traffic before it's moved.

Can I ask a stupid question.
Is this a good place to be:

Parents income lower than £25K, student living at home, claiming student loans for fees and maintenance.
Probable Scholarship/bursary and contribution from parents and gps/ extended family. Student self employed pt job earning about £400/ 600 pm

What if students pay increases, possibility to earn £1,500 pm do they have to tell student finance, not take loan for the following year.

Bollocks- most kids have fuck all money at age 18. So lend them all the same amount and then they start repaying when they earn over the threshold. If they get a better, higher Paying job, they’ll pay back. That concept is more along the lines of a meritocracy than the shit system right now, which is nothing to do with how well off an 18 year old is

That was in response to carycach

bevelino my DD has just finished her first year. Her and some friends were looking at some student rentals in the city.

I am unable to be a guarantor due to my low income and her dad refused to be a guarantor (despite him and his partner having a combined income of ?£100-120K) so she made a special application to have a place in Halls for another year. Luckily it was offered or she'd have been up shit creek.

The whole system sucks. REALLY sucks. When DD left 6th form my child benefit stopped, when I recently split with DP and moved and made an application for universal credit she isn't counted as a dependent but conversely I am expected to financially support her...

I think it is the right sysyem and works in favour of poorer kids because they can borrow more than the richer ones out of a finite pot

You are joking, right?

So poorer students and those from lower income families end up with more debt because they are eligible to BORROW more money?

Whats all this Scholarship stuff???

I know of several families on min wage and housing benefit/tax credits who have been given (loans aside) nothing from either the state or the Uni, inc 2 boys who both left Uni as they could nt afford to live on the loans after paying out rent and for course material, they both got zero hour contract jobs but then started missing lectures because of the odd hours demanded.
As i understand, any extra help is completely at the discretion of the Uni, as a proportion of their overall tuition fee income.

Oh and Carycach is talking tosh. the system penalises the poorer student and encourages them to take non uni and shorter courses.

YANBU. Aeons ago when I was applying for uni, there was still a mix of grants and loans. I was eligible for a partial grant but not all, as on paper my parents could afford to make up the rest.

Well, a) in reality they couldn't and b) it just became another stick for my mum to (figuratively!) beat me and my dad with – she hated that I wanted to go to uni and that he tried to support me to.

I did go and I had to work to pay my way. Not as hard as this guy, though, because at least I did still get some grant money.

I think uni ought to be fully paid for by the state anyway.

@ndjdbr it’s not rich at all. My parents worked very hard to get their jobs. I attended uni with very limited money and used up all the meagre ‘savings’ I had. There were students who got to keep their thousands of pounds of savings and got grants on top of that. I have a right to feel annoyed about that.