To think 'household income' is extremely unfair when assessing student finance.

[fontofnoknowledge]

Thought this when eldest DD first went to Uni however just accepted that this was how it is. Now Dss2 who lives with us has been at Uni since September - has bought a friend Home for the long weekend and talking to him has made me realise just how terrible this system is and how it makes some kids especially from hard Home lives, struggle even more. It is a system designed to make the poor even poorer.

Dss2's friend 'Tom', lived with his mum since he was 2. Dad not in his life. Never paid maintenance doesn't even know where he lives or if he's even alive. When he was 15 his mum met a new man. For whatever reason Tom doesn't like his mums bf. Nevertheless, he moved in when Tom was 16. He says it didn't really bother him as by then he was living his own life , good social life etc, so to be fair he just doesn't really 'know' this man. Tom gets to 18 and gets a place at Uni. Applies for student finance. The application wants 'household income'. Mums boyfriend refuses. Says his finances are none of anyone's business. Sf write to him three times requesting the information. He refuses saying he doesn't even know the boy properly. Has 3 kids of his own he is paying CM for and wants nothing to do with Toms student loan.
Even if it was provided, because he is a high rate tax payer Tom would get the minimum loan.
Because his mums bf didn't supply the info. Tom gets minimum loan and a letter telling his 'parents' (!) how much they must contribute to his finance.

Mother was a TA on tax credits before meeting partner. Now she just has her income. No tc. Boyfriend is tight with money and expects mum to contribute half bills leaving her very little for the month and nothing for son at Uni. Boyfriend will not pay Tom anything. He is working two jobs in order to pay rent. His Uni work is suffering and he is thinking of chucking it in as so stressful. He has had some help from student welfare, but it's still very tough.

AIBU to think that either children are Adults at 18 and should ALL be entitled to a full loan and not have it based on the earnings of your mothers boyfriend ??
As Adults their entitlements should be judged on their own finances, no one else's. Regardless of their resident parents household income ? The loan is repaid anyway so where is the loss ?

Conversely DDs best friend has a maximum loan as her mum lives on spousal maintenance. However non resident dad is very wealthy and sends her £500a month. She doesn't need a job as very well off.

clearly the problem is that his income should not be considered. If he is not the step parent, he literally has no connection to the child. I think it is scandolous they ask for it.

One way to save money, however, is to go to a more local uni. Can Tom get an education where he can live at home?

Toms mothers partner sounds like an arse.

But putting that aside it is an unfair system. It assumes a parent will be happy to support their child through uni if their wage means their child doesn't get the full loan. Some parents are just not willing to do it, whether they are together, separated, divorced, single, have new partners etc. The person going to uni isn't a child, they will be 18+ so I don't think a parents income should have anything to do with it. They should all have the option of loaning the same amount, then the ones that need it will take it and the ones that don't, won't.

Completely agree. Even years ago it was unfair. When I was in uni, my parents had emigrated to another high cost country and couldn't support me as much as they wanted. Despite this, the student loans based my loan on their income - I was living with my boyfriend by this stage and he was supporting me on his minimum wage pub job.

It seemed fair when I went, almost 20 years ago now. It was assessed on my mum's income. I'm not sure if my dad was taken into account, but I think he was either out of work or earning very little at the time, so it wouldn't have made much difference. My mum and stepdad have never pooled finances; Mum had 100% financial responsibility for me as Dad was skint, and DStepdad had substantial financial responsibility for my stepsibs as he was the higher earner out of him and his ex-wife. He'd already supported his kids through university and it was my parents' job to do the same for me.

It's been the same problem since loans first came in - back then if parents were on low income, you got the full grant which at my uni was just about enough. The people who suffered were those who were supposed to get money from their parents according to the assessment but didn't.

It's a stupid system, and very unfair.

At uni, you get some students who have parents on £90-100K a year between them, who can't (or don't) support them, and they get very little help, (only the £3K or so a maintenance loan.) Whilst the students from poor families, get bucketloads thrown at them. Grants, and bursaries, and all sorts.

One girl I know got a £450 television out of her 'spare money' at the end of her first term as she had SO much money given to her, (maintenance loan/grants/bursaries etc, AND her 10 hour a week job wages.) Whilst students of 'richer' families struggled to feed themselves.

It is a rubbish situation and very unfair. Our ds has just applied for student finance. It asked for mine and dh's income for 2016-17. Since then my income has halved. We also have 3 other younger kids and there seems to be no recognition of this ?? We can afford to help our ds but many others in a similar situation might not.

It's a very unfair system. My earnings are taken into account for SDs uni loan but I have my own child to support too (very expensive childcare). I don't get why SD is penalised for my income! As things stand we will help her out but she will definitely need a job too..

It's very unfair.

yes

Does anyone know what happens if the parent just refuses point blank to hand over P60 info etc for the mtce loan part of the uni application?

I completely agree with all those who say it's not the boyfriends place nor should he even be asked !

Even Tom says it's right he shouldn't pay - he doesn't even know the boy ! The fact that he sounds an arse is actually neither here nor there for this discussion. Tom says his mum is happy and that's good enough for him.. he just prefers not to hang out with him. He's not unpleasant to him, just a 'tidy freak' which probably doesn't rub well with a 19 yr old boy.

Yes his dad should have stepped up. Turns out after further nosey questions from me , mum 'isn't 100% who he is' .

I just don't understand why step parents are not expected to be financially responsible for step children until they become adults !! It's bonkers. They are adults. make it an equal playing field . Everyone gets the same loan. Everyone has to pay it back when they earn over £20k. How is that wrong.

They are adults.

I seem to remember someone when I was at uni 10+ years ago who was estranged from her parents so didn’t have to hand over their financial information, I wonder if Tom in this case could claim to be estranged from the mother’s boyfriend if he doesn’t spend any time with him or speak to him.

Is there any contingency for students of parents who can afford to support them but refuse to? because I’m sure there will be more than a few of those.

re the 2016/17 thing - i was in receipt of widowed parent's allowance at that time but it ended in August 2017 when my child turned 18 - took a gap year to help come to terms with her dad dying the year before.
These payments are now disclosed on the student finance form that I had to complete even though I am no longer in receipt of the benefit. Is it worth contacting them to make them aware of this?
I totally agree, it is either a loan or not? I simply cannot afford to support my daughter with £4-500 a month, i just can't and I am beyond worried about it.

Needmorespace and that is one of the reasons poorer kids are put off from even attempting to go to Uni.

Its crazy, isn't it. There's another thread discussing how household income is not taken into account for child maintenance. It feels like legislation is made piecemeal, and no one ever steps back to take an overview.

*StillNoClue

I* used to work at student loans and handled a similar case. Adult in the property took no financial responsibility for the child and I think we asked for proof, so letter from professional adults (teacher, social worker etc) to back these claims up.

How on earth is that even possible ? How many teachers of sixth form pupils have knowledge of their students home life and parents financial arrangements with their partners. ? How many kids have social workers ??? This is what the problem, there is no logic put into the system.

Only posting to mention that there is discretion for the loan to be assessed on the most recent / current income - I had a period of not working and asked them if we could be assessed on that basis, and they agreed - sorted in a phone call. This was about 5 years ago - hopefully it's still possible.

I agree it's a very flawed system.

The thing is, you don't realise how flawed it is until you go through it.

DS is lucky that we can (just) afford to top up his loan and will do so. We are lucky his accommodation will probably be very cheap.

How is it fair that a student with well off parents end up with less debt than someone from a poor back ground? It's not, but then I guess life isn't fair. Or, as the OP mentioned, if parents refuse to assist their DC financially? It's not possible for some people to work while at uni for a variety of reasons.

Also it doesn't take into account parental outgoings....large rent/mortgage/debt/supporting elderly parents etc.

I'm very, very thankful we will be able to support DS financially. His siblings (who are less likely to go to uni and therefore may not have the same financial handouts from us) will in the mean time experience less disposable family income.

It is awful. My husband didn't get to go to uni aged 18 because his step dad - who had actually adopted him! - refused to provide any financial information. In the end he went much later as a mature student, assessed on my income.

Most policy relating to young people is based on their parents being decent human beings. There is very little provision for children and young people whose parents aren't actively abusive but who just don't give a shit.

IME students from genuinely poor backgrounds were better places to go to university. Lots of them had 3x the amount I was getting on the minimum loan (up to £10k in loans/grants/bursaries). My mother and step father earned enough that I got the bare minimum but for whatever reason decided they didn't earn enough to top up my loan. University was a massive struggle for me, halls were almost twice my loan, renting a house with friends was just over my total loan. I had to work 30+ hours a week at times to make ends meet around my degree whilst other students from poor backgrounds or with divorced parents never lifted a finger their entire degree. In the final months of my degree I was exhausted and depressed from going through several years with no weekends or proper down time. The system is entirely broken. You aren't anybody's legal responsibility as an adult at 18 so why aren't we all treated equally and offered the same loan? And whilst we're at it can we open up grants and bursaries to all students not just those from poorer backgrounds? I did a lot of my coursework in the library and on DPs laptop because my own was falling apart in my hands. Meanwhile students with a parental income of less than X were able to apply for grants to buy laptops, tablets and printers despite already having their own perfectly working gear.

I don't know how it works everywhere, only the institution that I studied at obviously. I just believe people should be treated fairly and that what your parents earn isn't a good indication of your personal circumstances as an adult.

You aren't anybody's legal responsibility as an adult at 18 so why aren't we all treated equally and offered the same loan?

Exactly!

When I went to uni as a mature student at 21 I had to put my parents earnings even though I didn't live with them and i lived with my now ex husband.

It’s a really shitty system.

DD went to uni last year. When calculating her student finance they took our household income which was me and DP. They based it on our combined incomes from 2015 when we weren’t even living together.

When I phoned to query it I was told it’s based on the composition of the current household, but finances from the qualifying period which was 2015. I said “but we didn’t even live together then!”

Tough they said. So her first years loan was based on income from a man that wasn’t her father, in a year we weren’t even a household. Tell me how that works?!

And I think the whole process is bonkers.

It’s like me going to Barclays to ask for a loan and them saying ok but how much we will lend you will depend on how much your mum earns.

It’s a completely ridiculous system.

I lived at my family house when I went to University, as the ones I had applied for were in my home city, and I didn’t feel ready to fly the nest (recent death of a grandparent, and another one seriously ill at the time).

I received the lowest amount of loan possible due to staying at home and my parents income, which I believe was completely injust. My parents may have been earning x amount, but they have never been sensible with their money. Both were in debt, and were also heavily overdrawn each month. They fritter their money away on such utter shite. They don’t have a penny in savings.

At the time of enrolment onto my course, I had to pay £250 towards essential materials (as did the others). This was before I’d received any student loan. I asked my parents for the money, and they didn’t have it, and told me that they probably wouldn’t even have it the following month either.

Both of them had insisted that I do not get a job whilst in the 6th form, and I had been unlucky in not getting a Summer job, and so I had no money of my own.

If I hadn’t have received the £300 I inherited from my Nan a week before enrolment (she’d died a few months before), then I would have missed out on enrolling on my Degree course. The remaining £50 paid for most of my travel to Uni that month - my parents apparently couldn’t even give me that.

I’m eternally grateful to my Nan.