To believe kids are equal to adults

[DragonMummy1418]

They deserve the same treatment.
Their feelings are just as important as adults.

My parents told me that our home was a dictatorship not a democracy growing up and made me feel that my thoughts and opinions were not important or valid.
If it's something they can have a say in safely then I let my dc help make choices.

I went food shopping with my mother (who I am LC with) and 3.5 yr old DS today and she was appalled that I was letting my DS have a say in what we bought.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting him fill the trolly with ice cream and sweets but when it comes to a choice of which meat or which vegetables etc then I'm happy to let him pick what he likes and I know he will eat.

My mother was horrified when I said that I value DS's feelings and thoughts on the same level as my DH or hers (probably more than hers, lol).

I genuinely prefer the company of my child to a lot of adults I know.

I haven't seen any examples of abusive behaviour, Calf. All I can see are parents saying their kids are important, but that as adults who understand more about the way the world works the final say rests with them.
That's not abusive, it's called being a parent.

It's all about balance. By all means give your toddler a say in the groceries you buy. That's lovely and totally normal.
However PLEASE don't allow him this in every aspect of life, as otherwise he will get to school and struggle. And I speak as someone who works at one!

Nice sentiment OP but treating kids kindly and fairly does not mean treating them equally. They need to be guided, taught and given boundaries. They are not born able to look after themselves so need to shadow their adult(s) for the early years of their life. If you actually treated them as equal you would destroy their security and do them a great disservice.

So by all means treat them kindly and with respect but to treat them like an adult would be cruel.

My home is a dictatorship, and that won't even change when they are 18.
It doesn't mean the children are not respected, and their opinion is not valued, but ultimately we adults have to make the decisions and be responsible for that.

One example: one of my kids always refuse to do anything when he's busy playing. Ask him if he wants to go to soft play/party/ park/ beach the answer will be no. He hasn't got a choice, has to very unhappily leaves his game and come. Then he has the time of his life.

On a school day, their opinion on their school uniform is also irrelevant.

I wouldn't let my kids pick up their own food either: first they all different taste, and I am not cooking different meals. Then how will they learn to like different things if they never eat them. They can feel like they are involved, but definitively not as equal.

@MargoLoveButter

People falling over themselves to say how much of a dictator they are as if it's a competition. Being a 'dictator' is not compatible with being a good parent- it's abusive.

Great to give them some choice, but they aren’t equal because they are not responsible.

You give them choices because you are teaching them how to act like an adult in situations where the consequences don’t matter.

However it is cruel, and apart from anything else illegal, to expect a child to behave like an adult.

Children are, of course, equal to adults, in their human dignity and the respect they deserve. What I simply cannot stand is adults expecting to be put above children by virtue of their being adults - which was the way a lot of us raised in the 60s/70s/80s grew up, and which you still see vestiges of in the threads on here where posters get aerated about a child not jumping up immediately and cap-doffingly for a perfectly healthy and non-elderly adult on the bus. Obviously there needs to be such a thing as parental authority, but it needs to be exercised always in the short- and long-term best interests of the child. I do resort to 'because I am the parent and I say so', but as far as possible I communicate the reasons for my decisions age-appropriately. And my children's needs come first in my life.

Of course children are not equal to adults. That would be madness. Young children can't be allowed to roam freely on a busy road before they have a sense of how dangerous traffic can be. They can't be left to their own devices in terms of whether to receive vaccinations or take necessary medication. They can't vote or serve on juries for obvious reasons. Adults don't necessarily make the best decisions themselves, naturally (a look at recent election results proves that ), but children deserve to be protected at least until they have developed the cognitive abilities to make informed choices (and different choices require different levels of ability).

Children's opinions and feelings should be taken into consideration when appropriate. Absolutely. But offering too much choice isn't always in the child's best interest. I know of situations when children were allowed to make their own medical and educational decisions long before they were ready to do so IMO. In these cases the parents were not doing the children any favours at all.

'they aren’t equal because they are not responsible'

This is a good point and one I find myself making to my teen and preteen quite a lot when I have said no to something and they're kicking against it.

I also have a toddler, and a pertinent (and actually similar) example there is when she wants to climb the (steep and twisty) stairs by herself. I let her, but I'm right behind her although she tries to order me to wait at the bottom, and if she messes around she's scooped up and carried. Because the consequences of her getting her way and it going wrong are on my head.

Calf123, saying that you are ultimately responsible for the decisions and therefore a "benign dictator" does not make you an abusive parent!!!!!!

I'm all for children taking responsibility as soon as they can, but I think you'll find letting children do exactly as they please; run out into the road, not wear their seat belt, only eat sweets, not go to school etc would get you into far more trouble for negligence, which is of course a form of abuse, than deciding that they should try and eat healthy food and be safe!

Calf did you just use "Sad" as a full sentence? :o I so very much want to adopt that style and say that accusations of abusive parenting on this thread are fake news... Sad.

Seriously, what are you seeing as abusive? Bed times?

The number of examples of abusive parenting on this thread is unreal.

which ones? I haven't read any.

Also, I think people need to consider that even children 'being responsible' aren't, not unless we do actually want to be abusers. Let's say you get a rabbit on the condition your 8 year old 'takes responsibility' for feeding and cleaning it out. Then they don't. Then, instead of getting rid of the rabbit to a rehoming charity or doing the feeds/muck outs yourself, you let the rabbit thirst or starve to death, because it's 'their responsibility'. It's not, really, is it? They're a child.

I don't see them as an equal as they can't be as they are just children but we let them have a say in most things from meals to holidays to clothes. I hated being told what to eat, do, play etc as a child and wouldn't impose that on my own.

@catinapatchofsunshine

Bedtimes are abusive when they are used in the interests of the parent rather than the child to get 'adult time', or when or when DC are forced to go to bed at an arbitrary time regardless of whether or not they're tired.

when or when DC are forced to go to bed at an arbitrary time regardless of whether or not they're tired.

oh dear..you are one of those parents.

No, set bedtime are NOT abusive.

OP

Actually I think their feelings are not equal and it’s doing them a disservice to pretend they are.

Children need to be able to push boundaries to learn where they are, I have a number of friends who haven’t allowed their children to find those boundaries and those children have real issues with emotions and stability because they don’t know where they are.

I can remember being in a right grump and my parents telling me to snap out of it and that allowing me to enjoy my holiday.

Children don’t have that foresight, they need you to be a parent, not a validator

Can posters please stop trivialising the term ‘child abuse’ by using it to describe things such as bedtimes.

FFS.

regardless of whether or not they're tired.

What does that mean though?

Most adults don’t just go to bed when they are tired - they go to bed at a time that will enable them to get up at a particular time the next morning. This usually takes a bit of self discipline.

CalF is in danger of being the abusive parent when their dcs turn out to be unsocialised and boundariless. They will not thank her for neglect dressed up as “cool” parenting.

I hope I am kind and respectful to my dcs, but they are also in training to be decent, sensible (that might have failed!), sympathetic human beings.

Did someone actually just equate set bedtimes with child abuse?? Insane.

CalF I'm pretty sure they're not, unless the child is being made to stay in bed in silence without access to books/toys/ glasses of water and toilet facilities and for excessive periods (, longer than they could reasonably be expected to need to rest and sleep).

Send your 8 year old to bed straight after school and don't let them out til 7am and yes, I'll buy your argument. Ensure that your 8 year old is in bed for 8:30pm, with the option to read in bed for an hour and lights out at 9:30pm - nope, not abusive, just making sure that they wind down and get enough sleep to be up for school at 7am, no matter whether they'd rather stay up and watch TV or play playstation til midnight and only admit tiredness when they can't keep their eyes open in class at 2pm (I've taught those children).

Ever heard an overtired child yelling "I'M NOT TIRED" before being put to bed and being asleep within minutes? No reason why they can't have choices within reason over what to wear, eat etc.

Dragonmummy agree with you wholeheartedly. I do exactly the same with my DC

Bedtimes are abusive when they are used in the interests of the parent rather than the child to get 'adult time', or when or when DC are forced to go to bed at an arbitrary time regardless of whether or not they're tired

How very dare we!