To believe kids are equal to adults

[DragonMummy1418]

They deserve the same treatment.
Their feelings are just as important as adults.

My parents told me that our home was a dictatorship not a democracy growing up and made me feel that my thoughts and opinions were not important or valid.
If it's something they can have a say in safely then I let my dc help make choices.

I went food shopping with my mother (who I am LC with) and 3.5 yr old DS today and she was appalled that I was letting my DS have a say in what we bought.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting him fill the trolly with ice cream and sweets but when it comes to a choice of which meat or which vegetables etc then I'm happy to let him pick what he likes and I know he will eat.

My mother was horrified when I said that I value DS's feelings and thoughts on the same level as my DH or hers (probably more than hers, lol).

I genuinely prefer the company of my child to a lot of adults I know.

As I say to my teens, they are at the heart of every decision that DH and I make. They may not always get input but we absolutely always put them first and consider it from their perspective.

Babybythesea - I certainly don’t cook different dishes for different people - we all eat the same meal..as I explained? Not sure what point you were trying to make? Re read my post if you’re unsure of what I said

Agree with you waxon - I do the running commentary non stop 😂
It’s helpful when preparing food because they think they’ve actually decided what to cook - when in fact they’ve all ‘chosen’ one of the 4 ingredients ( I’d already decided upon) going into the pasta/risotto...whatever 😂

teachers treating children with respect and dignity, giving responsibilities and helping them make decisions

Off topic but shouldn't all schools be doing this? Ours does and it's just a state school.

Luisa I once did the commentary to some random kid who happened to be nearby...mine had fecked off to look at the toys...:o

My point, spread over a couple of posts and really badly made, was that using the phrase force feeding is a bit over the top. Getting kids to eat stuff they don't necessarily like on occasion isn't force feeding. You commented that you just fed your family things they all liked and I was (ineptly) trying to respond by saying in order to do that, I'd end up cooking multiple meals most nights.
I have a bugger of a time trying to find dishes we all eat. I swear my kids get together and plan it. "You ask for pasta and cheese sauce, but I will react as though that is poison and declare I can only eat sausages, at which point you have to look horrified and announce that sausages are the worst food EVER!"

So either I 'force feed' by sticking something on their plates they aren't thrilled with and saying "It's what we've got. If you don't really want the sausages, eat as much as you can and fill up on carrots" or I go hotel style and offer a menu and cook everybody a favourite.
I'm very envious that your kids eat exactly the same foods as each other, never mind you!

Which is all wandering a bit from the original point. To bring it back, my kids can ask for certain meals but they might not get, depending on how long I have to cook, what the budget is, and how much of an issue it will create with the other child (will they both eat it? Is there an easy alternative if not?) all of which means they are not my equals because they are not balancing all these things in their heads when asking for a meal!

Does that make more sense? If not, I give up as its late and I clearly need sleep!

As I said to DH recently - not everyone can get their favourite every night. :o

I think that's what you mean babyby. Sometimes it will be what you like another night what someone else likes but the meal is what it is and some days you'll like it better than others.

It still doesn't make sense, does it? I do try and cook things we all like. We sit down together most evenings. But there is almost always something on somebody's plate they don't like. Even in a roast which everyone loves, we have to have multiple veg because the favourite veg of one isn't liked by the other. (They do both agree that mushrooms in anything is the work of the devil). It's not force feeding to do that. I was objecting to the use of that phrase.
If you meant by not force feeding that you never offered anything that they didn't like then I was saying I'd find that impossible to do without cooking multiple meals, and am envious if your kids all like the same food.

We are all fussy buggers and fussy for different stuff, there is a=usually enough crossover that we have a decent repertoire of meals that give a variety and some are more favourites of some people than others. I've now got to the point where there are some things it's just not worth service on some plates. One DS likes beans, the other Peas. On a day we are having beans, I just give the other peas and vice versa. Or someone gets an apple or other fruit. It's not worth fighting about. If we've got to late teens and they still wont eat it I've admitted defeat! :o

Owlina - I think there's an awful lot of things that ordinary schools do really well that they aren't given credit for. I work with schools on visits, so lots of different schools from all over the country. I've also taught home ed groups, and groups from other less traditional style schools. I had one group (I think it was home ed because I'm sure I had the conversation with a parent, but it could have been a Steiner type school where I was chatting to a helper) who told me that the children in that group were far more free to be curious and ask questions and that they were far more engaged and intellectually probing than most kids.
The thing is, they weren't. They were curious, and they did ask questions, but the questions weren't any different from those I get asked all the time. They were good kids, and I enjoyed the session, but there was no real difference between them and a bog standard school group. Most decent schools will encourage kids to ask questions. Most teachers will praise a child who asks a really searching question.
While some of the more niche schools may sell themselves on 'we encourage curiosity' or 'we value kindness', the fact is, most schools do. There will always be individual teachers who don't do these things so well, but the majority of schools and teachers do.

I think ‘equal’ and ‘same’ are being conflated. Elderly, disabled, children, men, women, etc etc and so forth are not the same and often need adjustments to help them achieve equality. Treating people the same irrespective of their differences is a barrier to equality.
Children are equal but different. Considering their views and feelings when making decisions in their best interests is globally accepted as a good thing, even between countries who have very different ideas about children and childhood. The UNCRC has included it in the convention.

I don’t know what this fuckwittery about force feeding and child abuse is though. Offering children healthy, nutritious meals that they may not like is only abuse if you are pinning them down and ramming it down their gobs or making them sit up all night until they choke it down.

That's really interesting baby, thank you.

Its also good for children to learn that they can't always get what they want and that sometimes in life other people will tell you what to do and you have to just suck it up and get on with it😁

hey, don't make it all about "Millennials" when you know damned well that older generations have always disliked the ideas of the younger generations. It'snot because she's a millennial, it's because she's wrong. All sorts of people can be wrong, not just young people

hoist there are people of every age, from 2 to 102 and everywhere in between, who think that the world revolves around them and their feelings, and that their feelings and emotions are more real and important than anyone else's.

It is not a trait specific to young people. In fact those over 25 with this fixed opinion are worse, because there is no longer any hope that they will grow out of it.

Coming back to OP's situation, perhaps the dm was just a bit tired, and I can imagine it's exhausting to have to consult a 3-year-old on every purchase in a shopping trip.

Also, I doubt whether a 3-year-old is processing the conversation as an equal consideration of personal preferences, but more along the lines of Mummy asking me what I want. They will simply hear the message that they get to call the shots.

Also explaining to dcs the whole time is a)exhausting and b)not received well by all dcs. Most need clear boundaries, not endless discussion and Why nots?

Children (and their feelings) deserve equal amounts of respect as adults do, but children are inexperienced and therefore need help with decisions and decisions making for them.

In the 'fill the trolley with ice cream' example, if DP did this, he would understand that he is going to feel sick, that it is unhealthy and that it will mean we over spend when I go to the shops to buy real food as well.

A toddler isn't able to think ahead, or to think about consequences in the same way and it is right, as a parent to protect them from those consequences (doing less of this as they grow), while teaching them why we make the decisions we make.

I agree with you OP. Children need to feel their opinions are valued. They need to practice decision making and making choices. Letting them help you with choices on the food shop is a great way to develop those skills, and it also makes them feel grown up and part of the family.

Parents who don't let their child make decisions really irritate me. I feel sorry for kids who are always being told what to do, where to eat, where to stand, when to sit etc. Training a child to be obedient is for the parents' benefit not the child's.

There is a difference between valuing a child’s opinions and taking account of their feelings, and allowing them to take decisions.

I agree with you OP. Children need to feel their opinions are valued

They can be valued but they are not equal. Any parent knows that kids opinions are not equal to theirs, if they don't, they are not parenting properly.

WaxOn - ahahaha, yes I’ve done that before 😂

Baby ah yes, get it now, understand exactly what you mean....