To believe kids are equal to adults

[DragonMummy1418]

They deserve the same treatment.
Their feelings are just as important as adults.

My parents told me that our home was a dictatorship not a democracy growing up and made me feel that my thoughts and opinions were not important or valid.
If it's something they can have a say in safely then I let my dc help make choices.

I went food shopping with my mother (who I am LC with) and 3.5 yr old DS today and she was appalled that I was letting my DS have a say in what we bought.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting him fill the trolly with ice cream and sweets but when it comes to a choice of which meat or which vegetables etc then I'm happy to let him pick what he likes and I know he will eat.

My mother was horrified when I said that I value DS's feelings and thoughts on the same level as my DH or hers (probably more than hers, lol).

I genuinely prefer the company of my child to a lot of adults I know.

No they're not equal at all.

Nowadays the social norm appears to treat them as equal which I personally think has been detrimental and created entitled, selfish young adults who have little or no respect.

Children need to be parented and guided.

I get you o/p.

My mother was the same. I wore what sge said, had my hair cut how she wanted. Any opinions or feelings that weren’t happy and agreeable were dismissed as “hormones”. I felt completely voiceless and unimportant.

So while my kids aren’t “equal” to adults, they have valid feelings and opinions, and i will listen to them as if i would an adult. If i feel they have a point, i take that on board.

Basically i try to make them feel valued as individuals, with their own opinions. If they don’t agree with a decision, they can try and construct an argument. They don’t have to take my word as law.

I agree that some subjects shouod be the responsibility of the adults only. Because they are too big responsibility to give to children/teens (moving is a good one) but also because they don’t have the whole appreciation of what can be important in the long run (choosing what to eat for example. Teaching them the variety of foods, ensuring they eat a lot of different foods etc..l is something they might not appreciate at 3 or 4yo but will be prove the be essential as an adult)

However, leaving them to chose what to wear from clothes that are suitable for the weather (eg winter clothes in winter, summer. Lothes in summer) makes total sense to me.
Just as listening to their feelings and making them just as important as the ones of an adult etc...

My students who have been listened to too much, and treated equally by their parents are the ones who struggle socially when their friends don't want to listen to their every thought or let them talk on and on abut the same subject

But if their parents have let them drone on and on they haven't been treated equally they've been treated as more than the equal of their parents. Being treated equally means allowing them their share of the conversation nor allowing them to dominate it. There is a middle ground between treating children as unimportant and treating children as demi gods.

I am in the benign dictatorship camp. It is my house, I am the parent, I set the boundaries and hold the purse strings, so I am ultimately in charge.

We are a family of 5, although DD1 is now 23 and has moved out to be nearer to where she works. DD2 and DD3 are 19 and 15 and still living at home for school and college.

I've always tried to cater for all reasonable likes and dislikes, and will consider reasonable requests. I can and do veto anything that is pushing things too far, or can't be easily accommodated.

If I'd allowed them much input into my weekly shopping when very young then they would have chosen chocolate and crisps with not much else. It is a bit different now that they are older and can make more mature choices, but with the exception of DD1 I still hold those purse strings. I'm not mean, they get plenty, but I am constrained by a budget and they still have to understand that.

They are respected and taken into consideration, but they are not equal.

Having seen an approx. 3 year old scoffing sweets at 8.30 this morning and then bawling when his Mum wouldn't give him a sucking lolly (sorry - cannot remember what they are called) no they don't rule the world and have anything they want.

But I know you aren't saying this. Having said that my SIL has a very very spoilt child who gets whatever they want. No one wants to be around her family wise and SIL is now asking why. I suspect she really is clueless.

No. Not equal. What you give is the illusion of choice. When the chips are down they don't really get a say ie with medical treatment. You are the adult and you have the responsibility. Whoever said 'benign dictatorship was right.

Of course DC need to be parented but that doesn't ned to be in a dictatorial way. I see no reason why DC(SN excepted) shouldn't be allowed to choose what they want to eat, what they want to do, and when they're tired(within reason, obviously).

If a DC's not tired whenever your arbitrarily imposed bedtime is- why should they have to go to bed? If they don't like salmon, why should they have to eat it? It's not about 'giving in', it's about giving them control and respect for themselves.

They are different, equal is the wrong word.

I agree and think you mean listened to, discuss some things with and allowed some control.

Sometime mine are allowed to choose between things in supermarkets other times I don't have the money and the cheapest option has to be - though I do explain that.

Some outing there are options and choices but as there are five of us some compromised is needed. Some things like doctors, dentists and school aren’t negotiable. The secondary school option is governed by practical transport considerations.

I wasn’t allowed choice or listen to about many things what I ate, my room, what I wore what activities I did even as a teenager. Our children get a lot of input with those and where possible accommodated. I'm not sure what my parents feel about that TBH.

@Pebblespony

Sorry to burst your authoritarian bubble, but DC do have a legal right to choose medical treatment when they're mature enough to understand the treatment and consequences.

DH and I run a joint benign dictatorship in our house. We will listen and consider DDs opinions but at the end of the day, we make the final decisions. We will give her a bigger day in small decisions e.g. if we’re on holiday, what activity should we do on a particular day? However, she would have minimal say on where we were actually going on holiday.

A parent at a swimming lesson, limited seating to spectate, a toddler happily pottering around playing near the parent, but the parent refused to allow any one to sit in the empty chair beside them as it was for the toddler.

I'd have just parked my arse in it anyway.

I am always surprised how many adults treat children's feelings as inconsequential and unimportant. There's always the straw man argument that considering a child's feelings and supporting them is tantamount to being dominated by those feelings.

I remember always having to go the parties of my parents' friend's children. I was a shy, anxious child (my parents were the opposite) and it was very much the case that my feelings were dismissed as inconvenient and "wrong".

In a similar situation with my DC it might be that sometimes they do need to go to an event like this where they feel uncomfortable but I would acknowledge their feelings and support them (maybe go in and stay for a while, talk about how they could start a conversation or what to do if they feel self conscious or left out). As a child it was always the adult's feelings (embarrassment that I wasn't keen to go to the party I'd be invited to) that took precedence. It didn't make me keen to be considerate, it just made me resentful.

In some senses, as in, they matter as much as individuals and their feelings are important, yes. In others, no, because we are responsible for and therefore in charge of them.

My brother has one dc and they used to ask him nicely to come with them to get in the car etc. This I discovered could take half an hour or more as he was 3 and wanted to play with his toys. Fine when you're not in a hurry but in the mean time my 3 young dc were all sitting strapped into the car.

Dc need a parent to control situations and at times their opinion can count but other times it can't. Dd1 would never have been collected from
School when dd2 was 3 for example as dd2 tended to want to nap in her bed at that time. Would I have dragged an adult out of bed to come on school run? No, because it's not the same. While I agree dc should have a voice which is heard equal implies they can decide everything like an adult which imo is not safe or appropriate. Just because dc wants to have dinner in a restaurant or a specific type of food in the supermarket doesn't mean the family budget stretches to that.

araiwa
No don't be so rediculous that doesn't mean he's not equal it means he is a child and doesn't know what is good for him and would be totally irresponsible of his mother to let him do so.
She values his thoughts and feelings as a human being the same as her.

I am no tyrant and I don't trample on my dc's feelings. But I feel sorry for children whose parents think it's ok to let them eat what they like, go to bed when they like etc. Children don't make those kinds of decisions in a rational way. They do it based on instant gratification and peer pressure. I've taught many kids who are clearly allowed to stay up too late, do inappropriate stuff and stuff themselves with sweets and energy drinks. They certainly don't look like the product of kind, responsible parenting. They look like they are crying out for some boundaries.

As a child it was always the adult's feelings (embarrassment that I wasn't keen to go to the party I'd be invited to) that took precedence. It didn't make me keen to be considerate, it just made me resentful.

^^ This - me being shy was a problem.

In a similar situation with my DC it might be that sometimes they do need to go to an event like this where they feel uncomfortable but I would acknowledge their feelings and support them (maybe go in and stay for a while, talk about how they could start a conversation or what to do if they feel self conscious or left out)

We try and do this as well. My eldest at 12 now denies ever having been shy - yet as a young child often refused to leave my lap at parties.

I agree with previous posters saying that you are giving an illusion of choice. I have two pre-teens and trust me, if they had their say they would be on their phone/have a top of the range games console instead of doing their homework and chores. Sorry, this is our family and we all do our bit, they do what they are asked to do (recycling, tidy their bedrooms, put dishes in dishwasher, etc) and WE give them permission to use whatever screen (but we don't own a games console).

Yes they choose what's for tea, but they can't stay up until midnight on a weekday. So no, they do not have equal right, and they probably think the world is completely unfair (because we insist that they go to bed at 9.30).

Calf. My DD, aged 5, will argue that she's not tired until she is dropping with exhaustion. I impose an 'arbitrary' bedtime because I know roughly how much sleep she needs to get to be a pleasant person. Too tired and she is bad tempered and foul, refuses to eat, shouts and screams at everyone. And if she goes into school like that she won't be in a good place to access the education she needs.
As she gets older, and able to choose responsibly, fine. But at the moment, any suggestion she's tired brings on a screaming fit "I'm not tired. Go away, I'm not tired." This hen she lying on the sofa with her thumb in her mouth but fighting it to the bitter end.
I will take her feelings into considerAtion but her needs are the priority, and if she needs sleep, I will put her into bed. However she feels about it.

I also set bed times - otherwise one of mine would be up till early hours and be a nightmare for everyone inculding primary school to deal with.

I'm more releaxed with the oldest child at secondary - there is more ley way though past a certain time phone and devices are out of room and I expect an attempt at sleep. I expect similar for younger two as they grow up.

FullofJellyBeans - under those circumstances I do think that a child's feelings should be taken into consideration.
I went to a friend's wedding reception with my 2 boys a couple of years ago - we didn't really know anyone there apart from my friend, but my usually sociable 8yo DS had a bit of a wobbler and wouldn't dance or socialise with anyone. The small one was fine, dancing away on the dance floor, but the big one - not so much. So we only stayed half an hour because he was clearly uncomfortable - I admit I forced him to stay that half hour because I wanted to see my friend, but if he'd been happy we'd have stayed a lot longer. As it was, I saw my friend, small child had a boogy and was happy, and big child had his feelings accommodated (admittedly eventually) and we left, went and got cake from the shop and went home. I don't think he resents it, because he wasn't left feeling as though his discomfort was irrelevant - I did act on it.

Absolutely get where you're coming from and agree ultimately it's about them taking responsibility and imo you get a lot more respect if you give it.

The number of examples of abusive parenting on this thread is unreal. Sad.

Really CalF123 - where?