Why does DH feel need to provide constant negative commentary?

[shiklah]

DH has a habit of making constant negative comments and dragging everyone down all time time.

Small examples from yesterday:
DD13 has PMT and her skin has erupted. She is upset. I gave her a mini facial and reduced the pimples a lot, massaged her back and discussed how this will pass, and that most people experience these things, she calmed down and after a little cry got dressed and was looking forward to the cinema. As she was putting her shoes on DH said "you have a spot in your ear, did you know?" She burst into tears.
Later DS14 was very excited about seeing a film and being a bit controlling - trying to force us all to arrive an hour early by rushing us all at the shops. I told him to go and wait outside and he did, with ill grace, muttering as he walked off. I paid, went out, had a chat with him and he apologised, we had a hug, then DH quips "when he walked off he called you a 'miserable old woman'"
I asked why he felt the need to tell me and his response is that he is a very honest person.
These are 2 small examples, it is a constant drain.

AIBU to think there is a passive aggressive element to this? He also constantly witters on about how many jobs he has to do, how shit and miserable his life is, how he never gets to do things he wants, how unappreciated he is - but when I calmly point out the facts he just says "well, that is how I feel."

He was not like this when we were younger (been together since we were 18) but seems to have turned into a grumpy old man (he's 43) and I need advice, I can't keep having every weekend and holiday spoiled by his negativity.

It's time to give him an ultimatum, either he bucks his ideas up, or leaves.

This is not good for you or your children's mental health. You've spent years trying to help him, don't waste any more time and energy on this.

Someone who has to constantly knock down, minimise and degrade the accomplishments and successes of others to make himself feel better isn't a nice person. It's an unhappy person. A jealous person. An angry person. A bitter person.

Your DH is doing this to people he is supposed to love and want to succeed. You and his children ... HIS CHILDREN, FFS. He is actually knocking the accomplishments of his children to make himself feel better.

I honestly wouldn't give a shit if he was depressed or not. He is feeling hard done by life and can't feel happy for and proud of the people who love him and whom he is supposed to love.

This isn't love, btw. I know you think he loves you, but he loathes you by the sounds of it. He loathes your success. He loathes the fact you make more than he does. He loathes the fact that your DC are doing so well because of all the love and support YOU give them. He loathes the fact that he hasn't pursued, by his own choice, his own career and art.

I would lay it out for him: it stops or he goes and lives by himself. He cannot and will not take you and your children down with him into his well of self-pity. He is either with you or against you, and right now, it sounds like he's against all of you. And that is no way to live.

Google the passive man, OP - I think you will find it enlightening! And especially read this:
www.talkingaboutmenshealth.com/passivity-and-the-male-psyche/

Google Crabpot (or carb) Mentality. DH’s family are like this and I was told by a therapist friend that it is prevalent in parts of the country, with one place really standing out. My ILs are from that place! (Not saying which because I’m sure there are people from there on MN and don’t want to offend.)

They are a textbook case.

Not “carb”, CRAB

Absolutely call him on it. I’ve had partners like this; I think they do it because they’re boring shits who think everyone wants to hear their nasty opinions.

Thank you everyone for such thoughtful replies. It is like you know us better than out close friends and family.

I will reply later - I am at work atm.

I grew up in the Crabpot @spookytime but escaped. I have good relationships with my siblings but only by never discussing work/£ etc as they are horribly competitive.

I will read the passive man and all the replies again properly later. Thank you

I know he loves me, he is very critical of other people and holds me on a pedestal in many ways. It is odd. He is entirely dependant on me and has let all his other friendships slide, drift and does not want new ones. He is well liked, but avoids company.

Yup, my X loved me; held me on a pedestal (he used to love telling everyone about my status in work); entirely dependent on me for everything (and resentful about having to 'ask' me for money for his hobbies whilst not pulling his weight around the house); no external friendships (but popular when he could be arsed to go out) and (most of) my friends stopped coming around because he was so anti-social.

I'm sorry to say it, but he had victim mentality (from his father) - he's owed a living; owed a certain lifestyle etc and as he got older (we split when he was approaching 45, so not that old) I could see him getting more and more like his dad. Didn't want to be part of that. Plus all of the refusal to engage with me....minimising my feelings etc.

And refusing to go to counselling, too. It struck a chord with me when a pp said 'while you still want to', because for years I tried and tried to get him to talk/change/for us to improve our relationship and happiness. And then I detached and didn't care anymore. It was over and I didn't want to work on it. Irreversible .... please try and get him to listen to you/talk with you before you get here!!

The description of these people as 'drains' is so fitting. Exhausting to live with.

OMD the estate agent in the passive man link

what a wanker

anyone who needs that explained to them isn't really worth much in the first place surely?!

He has admitted he is jealous of my relationship with DC and the affection they give me. I do all the active parenting - discipline etc and he seems to find it odd that they respond favourably to this and actively ask my advice on situations - bedtimes/technology/friendships etc. Tbf this is my area of expertise and I know how to communicate with young people and it is a large part of my work.

You are all correct, he needs me and I do believe he loves me but he sees my success as his failure.

This thread is really helping me see things clearly. Thank you

The passive man article is very close to the bone. FFS, it's exhausting.

Thank you all

My dh is like this as his family. On the other hand I'm a very positive person - I worked with children with SEN so my brain is totally wired to choosing positive language. He's really gotten worse as the dcs have become teenagers but they're calling him out on it too. What has helped a bit is me pointing out the long tern effects of it.

shiklah the more you post, the more your H sounds like my STBXH. He did exactly the same thing - took no part in parenting or family life and then wondered why he didn't have a good relationship with his DDs. With him it definitely had to do with them becoming teenagers as well - no longer biddable, sweet little girls but independent young women.

They want no contact with him now.

Your H is going to have to pull his head out of his arse quickly if this is to be salvaged - but I'm not hopeful. Men like this don't know how to change and won;t make the effort to do it.

I’ve found this thread really interesting as I recognise some of DH’s behaviour here. I’d like to let you know that it can get better. I had a similar but not identical situation—negative comments (children and I banded together against these) childhood issues, refusals to go to doctor about depression, my success at work seemingly depressing him, and it really worrried me. As you describe, it was draining.

I realised I was ganging up with DCs and dismissing him because I felt I was in the right. I think I was, but I realised that was just embedding is all further in our roles which wasn’t helpful.

I loved and love him and decided to really work at it before giving up, and work at what we could do. So, long chats at times he wasn’t threatened, outlining his importance to us all and the impact he was having. Discussion about was his behaviour actually making him happier at all. Long analysis of his childhood, really really listening properly. Then some simple strategies.

Sometimes people who are always asking for attention actually need it (this works with children), so giving attention and praise first was helpful. Yes, sometimes you think ‘adults shouldn’t need praise for simple things ‘ but if they’re never praised as children believe me they do. Next, negative comments met with ‘are you feeling ok?’ To signal it’s odd and it’s saying something about your need for attention, not really talking about Dds spot IYSWIM. Then, when negative comments made, ask them quickly to say three things that are good, so eg comment about spot would need him to come up with three positive comments to DD. This is tiring and we found he found it easier to restrain the negativity. Good for DCs to join in with this as well if they’ve caught the habit of mean comments. I got challenged a couple of times myself which made me more careful.

There’s more to it than that, but you get the idea perhaps. Now I genuinely feel I’m living with a different person. We’d both got into bad habits I think, and it’s made a huge difference to our family life.

I suppose I want to say people can change, and it’s worth work . LTB is tempting, but it can just lead to a whole set of other problems and not leave you any happier. Good luck.

Thank you so much for reading and commenting on this thread. I have found the discussion incredibly useful and it's made me feel less lonely and perhaps able to talk about this more.

I don't want to leave him, I love him, he loves me, he is just a 'passive man' and also has depression and MH issues from childhood (attachment disorder).

We both grew up in a crab bucket but I thought we escaped. It is really interesting that some people have said maybe it is genetic - I thought engrained learned behaviour but it is very interesting to think about. If he can't change I have to separate because the thought of living with FIL is terrifying. MIL is a bitter alcoholic who barely speaks when FIL is present but moans non stop about him when he leaves the room - this is not my future!

I have to drive home from work now and will be thinking about all you have said, the kindness and the good advice. I swear some posters have been so perceptive it is eerie.

Thank you all

You've had so much good advice here from lots of other posters.

I would add that it sounds like you've already given him an ultimatum - if he doesn't stop it he doesn't come on holiday.

If thats right I think you need to follow through with this (as you would with a child) and refuse to include him in the holiday. Otherwise everything else you say - and it is obvious from your posts that you need to do something about this - won't be treated seriously.

I loved and stayed with my DH for 17 yes,supported him through depression.It took me years to realise that much of what was happening was not due to the depression,which he refused to follow treatment for.
I wasted years of my life and have a daughter who resorted to self harming with suicidal thought which she is still fighting.She loves him but resists spending time with him.
So how long can you really go on this way.Seeing even the best councillor can't work if you husband won't talk.
You don't say what effect this is having on your children apart from their behaving defensively just hearing your husband's car in the drive.
Maybe you can manage what I couldn't without it destroying my DD and me.
Good luck.

I encouraged him to apply for jobs in the field but he didn't. I have tried to encourage him, I also organised 'art therapy' which was very successful in the short term, but he had 6 sessions and the woman he was seeing left - and he didn't take it further. I do all I can to encourage him.

And he resists. The more you want him to be, the more you want him to do, the more he resists. He doesn't want to be what you want him to be. Not because you're wrong, not because it isn't in his best interests, but because you are get-up-and-go and ambitious and a driving force and he can't compete.
I should think he's hugely resentful of your success and coming up with ideas for him is just rubbing it in.

We sat and talked last night, I told him I wasn’t happy and why - gave examples and told him what I would like him to try. His response

‘You make me feel really shit’

Maybe he just needs to leave me and then he’ll be happy.

Don't let depression be his excuse. He still chooses what to do and say and his behaviour is horrible. His depression may cause him to think negatively but it's his choice to take it out on his family. Nasty man.

Another really important factor to consider in whether you can stay is how his behaviour affects your children. If you stay will he continue to model this behaviour which then becomes their normal and so the pattern repeats.

Did you ask him why you make him feel like shit? Can he even articulate why?

I think we all know he won't be happier if he leaves, but if he's not willing to work on the marriage and being a good father, I do think you should split. I worry about the effect he's having on your children, the bit about you all jumping up and looking busy when you heard his car, is very telling, and not a good way to live. It's also not modelling how relationships should work, which could lead to your children having similar relationships when they're adults.

Stuff him, and what might make him happy (probably nothing): what about YOU! And the DC.

His upbringing and genetics or experiences and disappointments in life don’t excuse his behaviour any more than his depression. Don’t fall into that trap. He is not “just” passive, he displays a range of unpleasant (at best) behaviours.

Please do read Lundy Bancroft. Some of his behaviours towards you sound abusive. And the DC have already been negatively affected by that, also his poor behaviour towards them. You’re not doing your DC any favours to be passive about that.

You might find counselling - from someone well qualified and good - for yourself helpful. Couples counselling isn’t recommended where there is emotional abuse.