To be embarrassed by BIL and SILs kids in restaurant

[LittleMermaidRose]

We were out for a family dinner last night, in laws brought their two kids age 5 and 2.

Oh my goodness it was dreadful! Youngest kid was hammering her toys off the table, lots of screaming. Oldest running around the restaurant, shouting, demanding to watch Peppa Pig, which she was eventually allowed to watch (very loudly) on her mother's phone.

That's the only time they acknowledged their kids. MIL tried her best to swap 2yo's toys for a soft book, parents just drank their wine.

FIL left early! I think he had had enough.

I know kids make noise & they were probably a bit bored, but it's the fact that the parents thought it was ok to disrupt the whole restaurant.

People were staring at us, it was so embarrassing.
I didn't feel it was my place to say something to them and I have anxiety so I found the whole situation really difficult.

My stress levels do heighten due to my anxiety, so perhaps I'm overreacting.

AIBU???

I'm reminded of a book someone wrote a while ago, called, 'French children don't throw food.'

And the reason they don't, is that French parents don't allow it.

Might say the same for Singapore parents - I have a Singaporean SiL, have been several times, and poor behaviour is tolerated far less, if at all, than in the U.K.

Having said that, I think it's a tall order to expect most 2 year olds to sit quietly through an evening meal in a restaurant.

At 5 it's a different matter - unless they're tired and should really be in bed by then.

I think keeping it quick is key. Or at least it is for us. My dd loses interest if it takes too long and then misbehaves. She’s getting better at it the older she gets, but I’d still never take her to a nice restaurant in the evening, unless really early.

YANBU. My kids aren't perfect, they can kick off with the best of them. But they also know that I'll get up and walk out when they don't behave and they generally like eating out so wouldn't want to leave.

That said, I have no problem with telling off my nieces and nephews. If their parents don't like it then they can jolly well step up to the plate themselves. Otherwise they have no room to criticise.

I take my 2 year old out to eat through the day, in the bistro in our local leisure centre once a week. It's full of babies and young children as there are sessions and activities for them running in the centre throughout the day; there's also another smaller café serving the same menu downstairs, which seldom has children in, so I think it's fairly safe to assume that everyone in the Bistro is happy to share their space with little ones, and the low level disruption that goes hand in hand with that. Even in that environment, I wouldn't be letting DS run around or bang toys off the table. We've been going there since he was a few weeks old (breastfeeding groups run there weekly), and he's NEVER been allowed to cause a disruption.

There's no need for children to be excluded from restaurants in the early evening (later on I think there needs to be a cut off, adults are entitled to NOT be around children as much as children are entitled to socialise in my opinion). The children just need to be educated in how to behave appropriately. I'm not pretending to be the perfect parent, nor am I blinkered to the fact that sometimes DS is a complete little sod. But if he's having a day where he won't settle and is creating a fuss, we leave. Simple as.

The whole "why didnt you help? Its family" can be totally taken advantage of.

My cousin had 2 kids (thankfully grown up now) who where proper little shits as kids, they craved positive attention. In order to prevent a scene or complaints, we would always keep them amused and try to keep bad behaviour to a minimum. She knew we would do this so would sit there necking wine like water and ignoring them. Often, as I had the most kids and would be parenting anyway, it would fall to me. One nigh I clocked on to the fact that two other cousins had been sending their kids to me too! At the next party I had got a sitter and whenever they came to me full of expectations that Aunty Pyong would play with them, get them food, buy them drinks etc I sent them back to their parents. Worst offender left very early in a right mood when she realised that she wasnt getting away with it again. I didnt take the kids to the next couple of family do's after that to break the expectation. I didnt mind interacting with them, but it is so easy to end up as someone elses unpaid babysitter.

YANBU, I would NEVER let my children behave like this at home or anywhere else. I absolutely hate when people give the kids devices to get them to shut up during a meal. We take pens, paper, or a pack of cards, or lego or what ever and actually engage with our children even if there are other adults there. If you can't sit through meal as a family then what's the point of even going!
I have friends like this and they talk about how stressful it is taking their two anywhere ( no SEN or anything just spoilt brats who's behaviour isn't corrected) and I have to bite my tongue from saying how about making them sit the table then! Or not let them run up and down the plane banging into people and kicking seats while you sit there drinking as it so stressful! We only go out with them now to places with a pub garden geared up for kids with a play area or similar.
I think it's actually harder to manage kids when they're used to being fobbed off with a screen, because they'll scream the place down.
Our DC's weren't perfect at 2 years old but they wouldn't have been allowed to bang stuff and scream - they'd be walked outside or played with as they were bored. I think as a parent you don't always get to sit in a restaurant the whole way through a meal undisturbed - you do have to deal with the kids.

Secretmum41 - I do have work to go to, I don't sit around on the Internet all day long.

Thanks for all the responses.

Myself and DP were out to enjoy the meal, not to babysit. We are a fun auntie and uncle, we take the kids out a lot, have them for sleepovers, but I don't know why that makes responsible to manage their behaviour when their parents didn't seem to care at all.

I don't have kids so I don't feel it's my place to say anything to them. For those of you that do have kids - how would you want someone to tell you that your kids are being disruptive without being completely offended?

I think this is an impossible position if you're not close enough to raise the behaviour of the children with the parents. I would have probably ventured something anodyne like "I'm a little bit worried that little X is annoying some of the other guests here, that woman looks a bit pissed off". It is embarrassing and not on when people abnegate all responsibility for children like this, so YANBU.

abrogate! not abnegate!

The thing is though 2 year old is not going to have impeccable manners at the dinner table.

Tricky one re: telling them that it's not acceptable to ignore kids. Tricky if you have kids - cos then you look smug, like you're thinking 'well mine don't behave like that' so that's judging their parenting ( even though you are!) and tricky if you don't, because you'll get the 'well how would you know, you wait and see etc.'
I'd wait till the next family dinner is planned and then gently suggest going somewhere more kids friendly, or at a more kids friendly time, or during toddlers naptime ... saying 'remember they got a bit bored last time?' Find a gastro pub with a nice beer garden ( the holy grail of sunday family lunches out!). Otherwise, I'm not sure there's much point in saying something.

Also there's a BIG difference in 'impeccable' table manners from a 2 year old and not behaving like a spoilt little sh@t - if parents ignore a child in a situation where they're already a bit bored then they will play up.

god british people are so anti-child.

OP - these are your young nephew and neice - what did you do to help mum and dad out? Someone above said 'why should she' ..er, because you are family?? and you love each other?

If I am out with my children all the adults support each other to entertain the kids.

I can't tell anyway from your post if they were genuinely badly behaved because you say you suffer from anxiety - possibly nobody else had a problem with it.

Your dad could have actually helped out rather than left early so it sounds like nobody was helping the parents.

Some kids are ok in this environment, others aren't. I remember being out for lunch with my friend and her 18m old when I was pregnant with my first. He kept climbing out of his seat, running around, going up to other tables etc - I was a bit embarrassed too to be honest. She seemed to think it was cute, I'm not sure the waiting staff or other tables did. I didn't say anything at the time as I thought, 'gosh - maybe this is just how it is with toddlers?'.

My DC is now 3.5 and has never run around a restaurant or wandered over to other tables. She's very good and sitting sensibly and enjoying a meal. We bring colouring, books, simple games etc in case we need them but she's generally pretty good so I would, and have, taken her out for an evening meal. I think I'm just lucky that she's happy to chat and get involved with what's happening at the table rather than run off, also she loves her food! If I knew she was likely to behave like the two in this situation I would not have taken them.

To answer your question OP, I think a simple 'I think they might be getting in the way of the waiting staff/disturbing other people etc, do we have anything that might keep them settled at the table?' would do. But that's assuming they give a shit. If they don't care that their kids are being a nuisance they will likely shrug it off or get defensive. Probably just avoid evenings meals with them in future!

What time of day was it? I'm not saying that the behaviour is acceptable, just that expectations may be too high. My in-laws got really annoyed with DH and I for not taking our kids out for family meals that didn't end before about 7pm. But our kids were not the type to sit quietly and and scribble / read, so it was not worth the stress of going out later.

I'd be embarrassed too

I actually have a friend who walked out of a dinner with her god children because of this and then had a major talk with the parents saying "I can't go out if you let them behave this way".

they laughed and pulled out the old "wait till you have kids" but of course she teaches hers to behave, takes them to appropriate places and worries about them mixing with the godchildren now because, surprise, surprise, they haven't grown out of that behaviour because no one ever tells them no!

The thing is though 2 year old is not going to have impeccable manners at the dinner table.

Of course they're not, no one is saying they should have. But the solution to a toddler who is likely to get bored at an adult dinner is to keep them amused, take quiet things for them to play with, earphones for a phone/ipad and play and talk to them. What you dont do is ignore them and get stuck into your wine.

The issue with kids who are misbehaving in situations like this isnt what the kids are doing, we all know what kids can be like, but how the parents are dealing with it, or not as the case may be. We can all have sympathy for parents who are being outgunned by their children, despite their best efforts. But yes I will judge the parent who does bog all and doesnt care how they are annoying and disrupting eveyrone else. Not least because said children are being taught that this kind of behaviour is fine and so will be worse next time.

A local pub used to run fun days, but they ended up not happening for a couple of years as one family would always go and the children were horrible. Bullying, snatching, stealing, climbing over things they shouldnt (seeing a 4 year old climbing on a wall directly above a BBQ is not good for your heart, let me tell you), despite being told by the landlord. We all just stopped going. Not the kids fault, they had never been shown how to behave but the mother to this day doesnt see what the problem was, they were just "high spirited". As it is they are "that" family locally and we avoid events that we know they are going to, as do many others.

I’ve had the opposite @purple; my cousin’s 18mo used to come to family parties and when he got tired, he’d quietly pop himself into his pushchair and have a lovely sleep. I thought that’s what they were all like. Big shock for me when dd turned into a wailing, angry, purple faced, screaming banshee if she wasn’t tucked up in bed on time! Cousin also reliably informed me her dcs all slept in till 8, from the age of 12 months. She used to get up and have a leisurely breakfast on her own before they woke up! I feel I’ve been tricked here...

What Pyongyang said. What gets judged is not the child, but the parents' reaction to it. All the things s/he mentioned plus a bloody rota for who takes the child out when none of them work.

I totally understand that kids can and will act up, I don't expect them to be angels. But they did have two parents at the dinner table who didn't seem to give a sh*t.

Aren't they the ones who are supposed to be doing something??

Am I not allowed to enjoy the luxury of a meal out just because I'm an aunt?

Oh yeah it probably was bothering me the most at our table due to my anxiety.. but the other diners were certainly bothered too. I could tell by the constant stares and dirty looks.

I am not surprised you felt embarrassed, why haven’t they taught they children to behave in restaurants? They sound very selfish IMHO.

god british people are so anti-child.

FULL HOUSE.

Why do people always trot out this crap when someone complains of poor parenting in restaurants?! I have never experienced anti child sentiment. I used to waitress and never had a problem or witnessed anyone else having a problem with children.

The issue isnt the kids, ITS THE PARENTS! I will cheerfully help others out but as I posted above, I will not take full responsibility for someone elses child when they are doing absolutely nothing. These parents were not doing their best but being run ragged, they were drinking wine and ignoring their children.

My two youngest kids would probably act the same, on a bad day! My son is austistic though and the youngest one copies him. We hardly ever eat out as it is so embarrassing, and constantly telling them don't do this, do that doesn't make it any easier.

When it's unavoidable we:

• eat early - 530 for tea
• go somewhere family friendly - Pizza Express, Bills. Plus they give colouring in which is a bonus
• order asap, no chat before food ordered!
• try and get out quickly - 45 mins our max time
• brunch works better than dinner
• take small toys, colouring in - although these rarely work as well or as long as we hope
• use the iPad with volume on lowish. Both want to watch it at once which negates our headphones

I have my teenager to tell me how emabarrassing and disruptive the kids are being, and believe me, I really don't appreciate it!

I would suggest steering family events away from restaurants wherever possible - picnics in the park, bbq on the beach, or finding pubs with outdoor play equipment. If you're all out together maybe you could bring something with you for them to look at - a small toy or something that you take home again and they can play with next time they see you. I know you're not responsible for them but I think that would be a small gesture that was much appreciated and not at all critical of the parents.

It sounds like a family meal was had at an entirely inappropriate choice

The other diners were staring because none of the adults were trying to entertain the children and were just drinking wine

use the iPad with volume on lowish. Both want to watch it at once which negates our headphones

Google "Earphone Splitter", they are a life saver when you have one tablet and 2 kids!