To not pay them?

[upsideup]

For 11 year old dd's sport there is a big event abroad in the beginning of the summer holidays that she is going to, her friend who also does the sports wanted to go but her parents couldnt take her so we offered to.

Original plan was for both me and DH to take the girls but we did mention when it was arranged that I was pregnant but that hopefully as long as all went to plan I would be fine going on the trip. I admit this was only casually mentioned and only once because after 4 easy pregnancies I didnt expect this one to be different but it was definately mentioned. I've decided not to go as I feel safer at home, we told them this last week ago and they said it was fine and hoped I got better. DH is still definately okay taking them on his own.

They now have phoned and said now they have thought it over and because we have changed the arrangements that were previously offered that they no longer want their dd to come so are expecting us cover the costs of this. The dd still wants to come, she has phoned my dd today in tears because they have been looking forward to this for months.

AIBU to not pay them anything? The offer to take their dd will stay open, if we were taking away that offer then of course we would pay.

Poor little girl to have her hopes dashed. I feel for her and would be amazed if the child’s parents haven’t agonized over this... perhaps they disagree between them about the best course. Obviously the reimbursement suggestion is totally UR. However, I’m sure won’t be a popular suggestion, but I would really try and have some sympathy...
am Assuming it’s your flight and tickets that are being cancelled - perhaps these can’t be put into someone else’s name and flights are now too pricey to allow someone else to go, or tickets are sold out...
I would say: really sorry I can’t go and we don’t want x to miss out. If there’s any other adult you know who would like to use the tickets in my stead I am happy to try and help accommodate with name change on flights/event tickets etc.

Also, you mentioned that your DD and DH are staying in family owned accommodation - who else will be there? If other parents etc would that help alleviate worry...

Also are the children participating in the sport or just watching? If they are participating it is completely legitimate to worry about what would happen if one child needed help preparing/was injured or anything and only one adult there to help.

In short - instead of looking at this as them being CF’s to you (which they are bing to an extent), try and look at it from the perspective of disappointed child/anxious parents. Talk to the other mother in person and direct and see if there are any steps which would solve the problem. Obviously no point going in with your back up about their possible views re: your DP. Just assume they are concerned about ratio of adult care, the person being someone they and their child know really well, possibly lack of a female adult companion - and see if there’s a solution. There may not be - but I’m sure both children would be endlessly grateful if you could find one!!

(Sorry, bit of an essay, but sometimes people cancel things because they feel too out of depth or nervous to discuss worries, and request help to find solution. I know I wouldn’t send my DD away with anyone I couldn’t have a frank conversation with about boundaries expected etc.
If they feel you appreciate the legitimacy of their concern they may react very differently than this knee jerk reaction)

@WhatAMess
I believe the OP mentioned her pregnancy en passant, and didn't give the other parents any reason to think things wouldn't happen as planned.
From the OP:
we did mention when it was arranged that I was pregnant but that hopefully as long as all went to plan I would be fine going on the trip. I admit this was only casually mentioned and only once because after 4 easy pregnancies I didnt expect this one to be different but it was definately mentioned

If you will be unhappy about your DD going abroad with only a solo male chaperone, and you have been told it is a possibility - HOWEVER CASUALLY - then it is up to you to clarify the situation BEFORE YOU BOOK.

This isn't necessarily her fault,

It isn't her fault.

but she hasn't replied to my earlier post, in which I question her about her lack of money when it comes to house-moving. It is, of course, possible that I have mis-remembered. Otherwise, it would seem strange to be spending that amount on one of five children's hobbies.

I have no idea where your house-moving and finance-questioning has any relevance AT ALL to whether it is reasonable for OP to have to reimburse someone else for a decision they made to lose money.

I still believe the OP has slanted her posts to gain as much sympathy and understanding as possible. I remain unconvinced, though.

I will reply to all the the sensible replies as soon as I have time tomorrow but this is just completely untrue and made up.

but she hasn't replied to my earlier post, in which I question her about her lack of money when it comes to house-moving. It is, of course, possible that I have mis-remembered. Otherwise, it would seem strange to be spending that amount on one of five children's hobbies.

Where have I mentioned my house or financial situation WhatAMessTheBad?
We have been in this house for 6 years, it perfect for our family currently and we have no plans to even consider moving. We can afford to spend this amount on one of our DC's hobbies or we wouldnt be doing so, we can also afford to and do provide all other DC's with similar opportunities.
Where I live, how much money I have and how much of it I chose to spend on my children hobbies is irrelevent to this thread anyway.

YANBU

Even if you only casually mentioned your pregnancy, it should have been pretty obvious to them that a pregnant woman might have to change plans.

And even if they are uncomfortable with only your DH taking the girls (which I personally think is an unreasonable stance), that is their decision and their loss of money.

@WhatAMessTheBad You appear to be the only one lacking in comprehension skills. Probably, too busy spouting bullshit instead of taking any notice of what the OP actually said. The Refundzillas knew that OP is pregnant. It seems most people can grasp the fact that there can be complications.

They havent paid any money directly to us, they have paid for their dd to come so flights, enterance fees and event expenses etc themselves

But who did they pay the money too? The event organisers? The airline/travel agent? That's who they need to be chasing for a refund - unless they already have and were told 'no', so now they're trying their luck on you.

As their withdrawal from the event coincides with your inability to also go, then it's 99.9% sure that it's because the only adult will be a male. I'd take huge offense at their implication that my husband was untrustworthy. This would definitely affect how I dealt with these people going forward. I would not, under any circumstances, keep the offer of taking their child open should they change their mind after this behaviour.

They're being CF
You've already told them you are coming but may have to pull out - red flag to reconsider the what if's at this point for them ... perhaps holiday insurance?!

You were effectively giving her free accommodation, food, childcare for a week - they're happy to accept that, but now due to your health you need to stay home and they not only forget these mind acts from you and your side, they want to squeeze the cash they should have ensured they had holiday insurance for out of you

They're not friends!

@chavtasticfirebanger do you have future child abusers sons?

I do, I'd be furious to think that a bigoted person like you would stop their children having friends round if they didn't have a female partner around.

You would utterly mad and you're bringing your children up to be the same. Shame on you!

Sounds like a pair CF!
If the offer to look after their DD still stands then you don’t owe them anything.

As a parent of boys it makes me incredibly sad to think they will grow up with women assuming they're sexual predators with no other proof than they have a penis! Would all of you have an issue with a boy staying alone with a man? What about at a nursery with a woman because we all know that sometimes goes wrong don't we? Assuming anyone is a sexual predator is a horrible base line to work from, a healthy amount of caution is good but this blanket fear is stifling our children and will result in all of them missing out on school trips etc as no male teacher (for example) will want to risk the skewed glances

Me too Tessa. And as has already been pointed out, the girl wouldn't be alone with the dad anyway. His daughter would be with them. Crazy.

YANBU. The way I see it, is that you have thoughtfully provided their DD with a huge opportunity, at your own expense (food etc) that due to work circumstances or whatever, they couldn't offer her personally. The opportunity is still there, but either due to their narrow-mindedness or lack of trust in their 11yo DD, they are choosing to take that opportunity away from her.

You've handled it perfectly. The opportunity is still there, you would hope they take it up, or perhaps they can find another family to take on their daughter for the week instead (I assume unlikely, but hopefully they would at least realise what a massive favour you're doing them in the first place.) You are absolutely not liable for any of their costs.

As for all the posts about "I wouldn't feel comfortable just with a dad...", this sort of thing is so harmful, it puts a lot of men off entering the teaching profession and robs so many kids of decent male role models. Not to mention that it tells dads that they aren't actually 'parents', that they're not actually expected to be responsible for the care of their own children, because that's "women's work". Clearly OP's DH is a responsible adult and good father, fully capable of taking care of 2 11 year olds for a week.

Definately not your problem that they’ve decided to back out and loose money. Surely they’ll have sorted insurance for this?! It’s their problem not yours. Don’t teact or answer them harping on. You’ve got your health and baby to think about. Take care. They’re trying it on!! Poor daughter!!

I wonder if they’re including childcare costs for the time of the holiday in their demand?

Absolute cheek. And what exactly are they trying to imply. If I was you I would think very carefully before involving this child in any future trips you arrange. Also inviting her to your home. With people like them there is always going to be some form of un necessary drama due to their ignorance. They are the one cancelling for no real reason which you are aware of so therefore they bear any costs or lost them comes with cancelling for NO reasons

I'm just baffled by this Op this term is way overused but this is definitely CFuckery. Even without being DBS checked (in this situation this should be irrelevant but reassuring) your DH is well known to and comfortable with this child and she with him. It was mentioned at the beginning this was a possibility that you might not be able to go I feel sorry for both girls and also for your DH who must now feel very awkward (for no reason). I understand things happen but I really do think that things have gone too far now. I know my dd1 is younger(8) but my dh does more of the school runs and party runs etc and lots of her friends are very happy in his company and dd1 with their dads too.

Absolute CF-ery, cannot comprehend on what planet they would ever feel you would be liable for this! I hope you tell them where to go!

WOW --- YANBU

They are being very unreasonable... do not pay them anything

This whole attitude toward male carers makes me so sad

So OPs hubby, works with kids, has known this girl many years and the kids have been friends /spent time in each other’s houses for a long time?

Pragmatically if he was gonna be some sort of sexual predator he’d likely have done something already, the likelihood of being a foreign country only offender seems even more ludicrous than him being one in the first place...

It’s hugely unlikely, uneducated and hugely offensive.

Reckon they should jog on and have respect for their own daughters friendships and not push it any further.

Best wishes with the pregnancy, hope your health improves!!!

But it isn't personal to OP's husband.
When I was 11 and at secondary school we weren't allowed to walk home in our gym skirts. If we went on school trips the male teachers couldn't come in our rooms. Was that unnecessary? What about carrying rape alarms or making sure you're not dressed in an overly provocative way or too drunk to look after yourself. If society constructs rules around safety for women and girls, which result from very real cases previously where they have been hurt, then where do we choose to draw the line?
Ultimately, it is about minimising vulnerability. We will always at certain times in life be vulnerable, it is arguable that girls and women are more vulnerable rightly or wrongly. Part of parenting is making sure your children's vulnerability is minimised so they are safe. The loss of money is less important than this so they shouldn't have brought that up. But to say it's unreasonable is simplistic. The safety of our children is the most important thing in our lives, the offence others take much further down the line. We make choices based on the messages we have been given and the experiences we have had. That doesn't mean those who would also not send their daughters are bigoted or stupid, they just assess the vulnerability as higher.

So you were offering bed and board free of charge for the daughter they could not accompany and they want you to pay for their decision to pull her out of the trip?
Words fail me.

YANBU

You were originally doing them a favour by offering to supervise their DD along with yours. You are not withdrawing that favour as your DH is still willing to supervise her but they have decided not to take up that offer. Their choice but also their loss. If they cannot get the money back for flights or entrance fees that is not your problem. You have lost money too but your health and that of your unborn child is more important. Their DD would presumably be spending her time with your DD so no different to a playdate or sleepover and I am amazed at the number of people who would not allow this with a Dad. My DH took my two DDs out with their friends many times when on school holidays and I was working.

Don't pay them a penny. They are being really cheeky.

They are being ridiculous. If they were so desperate for their daughter to be looked after by a woman, they should have taken her themselves or arranged for a nanny or something.

To make this stick, they would have to claim that there was a contract between you whereby you would look after their daughter and would guarantee that you, OP, would go on the trip to look after her, failing which you would reimburse them. Anyone can see that there is no way you would have agreed to something like that, and indeed if they had suggested it to you at the outset you would probably have laughed yourselves stupid. And it doesn't work in legal terms: for a contract to be enforceable, there has to be consideration from both sides. In their version of the agreement, they were offering precisely zero benefit and therefore zero consideration.

Surely they’ll have sorted insurance for this?!
This has been mentioned more than once, but I very much doubt any insurance pays out for deciding not to let your child go! Insurance covers events that happen to you that mean you CAN'T do something, if it covered just changing your mind the price would have to be huge, to cover the cost of people just deciding they'd rather have the money for something else!?

Still not in any way the OPs problem or responsibility - they choose not to send their child, they likely lose their money, end of.

I can see both sides. The OP has changed the terms which the other parents were happy with when they spent the money arranging for their DD to go along. It's a bit cheeky to expect them to still be ok about it

She hasn't changed any terms, Chips. If the other parents wanted to make their daughter's attendance conditional on OP being there, and to be able to claim financially if she wasn't, all of that would have had to be spelt out right at the beginning. As matters stand, they had to have known that there was no way OP could guarantee that she would be able to go, because it's bloody obvious that she couldn't guarantee that she wouldn't be ill or have an accident. Moreover, they knew that the risk were increased by virtue of OP's pregnancy. Therefore they went into this arrangement with their eyes wide open. If it was so vital to them that a woman look after their daughter, they should have arranged that for themselves.