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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not pay them?

308 replies

upsideup · 19/05/2018 17:24

For 11 year old dd's sport there is a big event abroad in the beginning of the summer holidays that she is going to, her friend who also does the sports wanted to go but her parents couldnt take her so we offered to.

Original plan was for both me and DH to take the girls but we did mention when it was arranged that I was pregnant but that hopefully as long as all went to plan I would be fine going on the trip. I admit this was only casually mentioned and only once because after 4 easy pregnancies I didnt expect this one to be different but it was definately mentioned. I've decided not to go as I feel safer at home, we told them this last week ago and they said it was fine and hoped I got better. DH is still definately okay taking them on his own.

They now have phoned and said now they have thought it over and because we have changed the arrangements that were previously offered that they no longer want their dd to come so are expecting us cover the costs of this. The dd still wants to come, she has phoned my dd today in tears because they have been looking forward to this for months.

AIBU to not pay them anything? The offer to take their dd will stay open, if we were taking away that offer then of course we would pay.

OP posts:
ichifanny · 19/05/2018 22:50

Well they can bog off then you don’t owe them anything , it’s fair enough they aren’t happy with the arrangements but not up to you to reimburse them , they could y’know take their own child .

Lunde · 19/05/2018 22:51

They are truly CF's - cant their dd go with one of the other family's if your arrangements are not good enough for them!

WinkysTeatowel · 19/05/2018 23:05

Ok, thanks for clarifying, Give them nothing, the opportunity for their DD to attend is still there. If they choose not to send her, they forfeit the money invested.

chavtasticfirebanger · 19/05/2018 23:05

They're taking the piss there. The obvious thing to do is for one of them to accompany their DD.
You don't owe them anything.
I'd be annoyed that you were no longer going for reasons previously stated but wouldn't hold you financially responsible.
They need to step up.

boilerhouse2007 · 19/05/2018 23:06

''Not really it's just fact and parents being cautious because I hate to break it to you but people don't walk about with a paedophile tattooed on there forehead. There is no way of knowing. Can't be too carefull when it comes to your children''

but 15/20 years ago this whole thing was never a problem, it is only in the face of high profile sex abuse cases in the media that people have become wary and men have being viewed with suspicion. The likelihood of this happening as I have said is alot less than ppl think.Think about it-of all of us posters here who went to our friend's house as kids where there was no mum present and just dad watching how many of us got abused?? It's very little so that is why i personally believe this paranoia to be ridiculous. Yes ppl say 98 percent of cases are men but the amount of cases in relation to population is still very low yet ppl go on as if it is pretty common like people having cancer or something. This is simply not the case and that is why ppl need to relax a bit.

Katedotness1963 · 19/05/2018 23:11

Their choice, their lost. You owe them nothing!

SpanielsAreNuts · 19/05/2018 23:12

Op - if they change their mind again and decide to send her, I would now be very cautious about your DH taking her, incase they make unfounded allegations against him.

lhastingsmua · 19/05/2018 23:26

Don’t give them anything

expatinscotland · 19/05/2018 23:30

Have you told them you will not be paying them?

Notthemessiah · 19/05/2018 23:35

Exactly Spaniels. If I was the Dh I would be very uneasy about ever being alone with this child, or even with Dd present too.

KeepServingTheDrinks · 19/05/2018 23:55

they have paid for their dd to come so flights, enterance fees and event expenses etc themselves.

So if they want this money back, they need to contact the airline for the flights and the event organisers for the entrance fees and negotiate with them on being reimbursed.
Not sure what 'event expenses' means or who they paid that to in advance, but whoever they paid it to are the people/organisation they need to chase. NOT YOU!

I've seen several posters suggest they send an appropriate adult of their choosing in your place if you can't go. Up to them to provide this.

I've been reading this thread with interest. I hate the "all men are potential abusers = I must never leave my child alone with a man" argument. I find it paranoid and ridiculous, although I understand where it comes from.

BUT I do slightly think (and apologies for the generalisation. I know many, many men who could disprove this in a twinkling) I think an awful lot of men are quite rubbish about details...

Need to provide food? Get a takeaway ("hey, the kids loved it" never mind that there was a meal a blink away which will now go to waste and a takeaway was money that was allocated elsewhere).
Need to go to bed? Done. Two hours late on a school night and no tooth brushing and the kids thought it would be fun to go to bed in their day clothes. But they're all in bed and asleep.
Sorry, those are very cliched examples, but the kind of thing I mean about men doing 'big picture' but not detail. And THAT is what would worry me about a man being in sole charge of my kid abroad.
Unless I knew him. And then I'd be fine.

chavtasticfirebanger · 20/05/2018 00:11

I doubt they'd be making allegations. That's a bit of a leap. I think that most men would understand actually. I also think that all the 'shock horror how ridiculous' posters would pause before sending their own daughters.
It has been interesting reading though on setting clear boundaries before making significant plans. I think that the suggestion the pregnancy may cause problems has been way too weak.
Boiler telling people to 'relax a bit' comes very much from your own experiences. It is highly likely you know someone who has been abused as it isn't something most people broadcast.
Hope your daughter enjoys the trip with her dad OP.

JustWomanWillDoThanks · 20/05/2018 01:00

Dh and I are taking 13 year old dd and her friend to an event which involves an overnight stay.

It's been booked a long time and I've developed health issues that might mean I can't go.

Dh would absolutely understand and not be offended or insulted if they chose not to send their dd with just Dh.

He's said he'd understand why they'd feel uncomfortable, he knows it's not about thinking he is a nonce but that more about the society and shape of society that the decision is being made in.

Their dd may not feel comfortable with just Dh either to be honest. She's extremely shy and I don't think she'd be able to ask him if she needed anything personal etc.

I def wouldn't be paying money they've spent if they've changed their mind though, I'd offer the parents to find another adult who could go and they could have the place I'd paid for but couldn't use and I'd give it for free as I'd rather both girls get to go than just dd.

Someone said this stuff wasn't a problem 20 years ago? It feels like a month doesn't go by without some big historic abuse case making the media, people finally facing justice for sex offences committed 20 years ago. Threads on here regular have experiences if women sharing childhood abuse from decades ago, I think it very much was a problem but the culture of shaming victims, not believing children and turning a blind played a big part in child abuse not appearing to not be a problem.

There's a few parents In dds year group I wouldn't feel comfortable sending my dd abroad with, I'd say no if I found out one of them would be looking after them alone, (and dd wouldn't to go with just them anyway) but yes if another parent was there also and the reasons have nothing at all to do with thinking them a perv.

Absolutely don't pay them anything but I'd try not to take it as a personal insult to your dh or a direct accusation of him being a sex offender.

JustWomanWillDoThanks · 20/05/2018 01:20

And fwiw my good friend was raped by her best friends family member after he was given task of looking after them while Mam popped out. Thirty years ago and not only my friends parents not believe her but kept sending her to their house. I wish she was unique but I don't think she's the only one to have bad things happen when at a friends, for all any one of us know the Mum or Dad could have had something bad happen to them at the hands of a friends Dad. Even if it was/is rare, just from the historical celebrity stuff alone it happened way too much and is only just being healers and taken seriously in recent times.

DH doesn't get offended if said friend may not come in when I'm not home, she doesn't know him well and he respects the boundaries she's put in place to feel safe, one of those boundaries include not being alone around men she doesn't know well if possible, being insulted and offended at him would imply he thinks she shouldn't have those boundaries and should come in and be alone with him when she doesn't want to. He'd never want to make her or anyone feel like the have to put his feelings before their own comfort and knows it's not personal type thing.

Clubcuts · 20/05/2018 07:15

@MrsDesireeCarthorse, can you fucking read?

Op, tell them to jog on, and if they then say ok we will let her go with your OH, I'd tell them to fuck right off!

Clubcuts · 20/05/2018 07:23

@JustWomanWillDoThanks, that's a reason to not let her go, not a reason to ask for £1000 to be paid to them!

Happinesss · 20/05/2018 08:28

I wouldn’t be happy sending my daughter with just a line male as well if I didn’t know him well.

But I would t ask for the money back.

Happinesss · 20/05/2018 08:28

Wouldn’t*

boilerhouse2007 · 20/05/2018 09:35

''I had two friends through secondary school whose dads were arrested as peadophiles - in both cases the mother knew all about it! ''

in that case the wives are just as guilty as their husbands. Were they charged too? I know a case where a man did it and the 2 girls told their mum[a next door neighbour] .She kept it quiet and banned her daughters from his house. For many years in the mean time this man was a school bus driver and had his own kids with many children hanging around his house and this woman knew it and said nothing and lived only a mile from him or so in a small town...

The story only came to light around 30 years later but i will never understand why this woman never spoke up and potentially allowed more to be abused especially when her own daughters were involved. She had a stroke before the case came to light that left her with terrible brain damage and needing 24/7 nursing and but had she being healthy I think people like her should be charged too.

Urubu · 20/05/2018 11:06

The terms of a verbal agreement were changed not very fair as it really doesn't sound like you made them properly aware you may not go
Sorry but that is just silly. What if OP had broken her arm, or she had D&V, or if her house burned down and she had to stay to deal with insurance... would she be reliable for the money?
You do realize even companies have clause to be covered if they can't offer a promised service after all as long as it is not done on purpose / by negligence.

MadMags · 20/05/2018 12:00

It hinges, IMO, on what you actually said when you explained you mightn’t go.

I still wouldn’t pay. But I reckon you’re more U than you want people to think.

honeyishrunkthekid · 20/05/2018 12:11

But what would happen if you pulled out because you were unwell rather than pregnant (although I fully understand that pregnancy can be tough)
Would they expect you to reimburse you then? They sound ridiculous OP.
YANBU. They need to sort out their own refund.

bonnyshide · 20/05/2018 13:35

They have decided not to send her, your DH is still willing to take her.

YANBU you don't owe them a penny!

BackforGood · 20/05/2018 14:50

It doesn't hinge on that at all MadMags.
If you book something you can't afford to lose, then you take out insurance at the time. If the friend's parents chose not to do that, then they will be out of pocket. That's how insurance works. They decided to chance it, and it now means if they choose to pull their dd out, then they lose the money.
Of course, insurance might not pay out for them 'changing their minds' but that, again, is down to them to negotiate with their insurers, if they have any.

None of it is anything to do with the OP. They agreed the dd could come along with them. They even have free accommodation for her. That offer still stands. Of course the other parents have the option of saying she won't go only with OP's dd and dh - that is up to them - but it is also their loss if they choose not to.

expatinscotland · 20/05/2018 14:52

Doesn't hinge on anything. The only agreement was to take the girl along, a verbal one. Totally U to demand money if they pull out.

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