Am I being unreasonable to be angry with my son’s uni tutors?

[Ladymacbethshandwash]

My 18 year old son is coming to the end of his first year of a performing arts degree. Since he was a little boy he wanted to become an actor so this was the natural route for him to take.

He has struggled with certain aspects of the course, namely the movement side as he is 6 foot 3 and as graceful as bambi on ice. He has failed his two movement assessments and passed his acting assessments. Today at his end of year tutorial his tutors told him he will never make it as an actor. They bluntly destroyed his dreams and sent him on his way. My 18 year old son is away from home, distraught because in his opinion his dream is over, his life is finished. He won’t come home and he doesn’t want to speak to me. Why oh why could they have not been a little more careful about the language they used? I know I’m his Mum, so I am obviously biased but he does have something, he’s funny, confident, handsome and he does have acting ability. Unfortunately he doesn’t believe this now, he’s so low I don’t know what to do.

Honestly, it doesn't matter at all what his tutors think. Not one tiny bit. They are just tutors on one course. If he had zero talent, he'd not have been accepted for the course in the first place. To get down to the last 36 out of 700 means he shines in some way. That they haven't managed - yet - to improve on the raw talent may mean he's not very teachable, or, more likely, that he;s a gangly young man who hasn't grown into being able to manage and manipulate his body physically yet. If his heart is set on acting, tell him to stick at it.

If he's chucked off this course, there are loads of other ways into the profession. He could apply to drama school. He could get Adult Ed acting lessons - there are some fantastic courses out there. In London there's City Lit and the Actors' Centre for starters. He could start doing stand up and improv with local pub comedy groups and theatre with profit share companies and progress from there. he could write his own material. etc.

I used to work with a very talented and successful actress who later became a movement tutor in theatre. She wrote an essay which I found online and never forgot, that when she was younger she truly believed you had to iron out your body flaws and be able to start from neutral to create character. Now she believes you should enhance your body flaws - make a thing of them, and allow them to be part of what makes you unique and stand out as an actor. Wish I could find that essay again. If I can, I'll post a link to it. I agree with her. If he can work with his flaws, not against them and make a feature of them, he could be onto a winner.

Poor boy, that’s tough. 😢

I am a great believer in the f.ck you school of motivation. After a little weep on a loved one’s shoulder.

I'm sorry to hear the way your DS was treated, but please tell him there he doesn't need a degree/diploma to become an actor.

I'm a 46yo single, very overweight mom and I've done plenty of extra work in movies. With not a drop of acting training. One of my friends started as an extra and has now had speaking roles in Harry Potter and Pirates. And one of my other friends does loads of TV adverts and movies - all with no training whatsoever. If you want the names of some good agencies, please pm me.

Im from a performing arts background.this is how people speak. You need a thick skin and its better he grow it now. This doesnt mean he wont be an actor. I was told that they say these things tp teat how serious you are, how true your comitment is. Maybe it.sounds arseholish but they want to see who really wants it.

Heads down, keep working. Im sure the guy that plays the remaining Mitchel brother in eastenders makes a fantastic living, but probably isn't much of a mover.

Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman trained at the same acting school and were voted 'the students most likely to fail', their tutors were apparently quite scathing of their acting abilities.

I think they may have quite a few Oscars between them now and made some of the best movies of the last 50 years

Hang in there and prove them wrong!

Just a thought - has he ever tried the Alexander technique? My DH had a session at work last week and was really impressed with it.

Your son gained a place on this course and is owed a duty of care by the people who selected him.

Umm, no - that's not how it works. They don't have a duty to stop anyone who might possibly fail from doing the course. If they did, they would have no students.

If he's ungainly now he must have been ungainly then, when he applied. The course has no excuses, therefore, to say he's no longer suitable.

They might have thought he would improve after taking the classes.

Being thrown out for being gangling is no different to being thrown out for being disabled.

No, it's really not the same thing.

I'd attack this course on the grounds that it's being discriminatory in it's marking process - your son can't help being tall.

That won't work - A) he's not being treated unfairly on the basis of his height, he's just not good at the movement aspects of the course and B) in any event, height is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act (it is at most indirectly linked to sex as men tend to be taller, but I can't see a sex discrimination claim working here). Honestly, I can't see a remote chance of a discrimination claim succeeeding unless the OP's son has a disability which she has omitted from her post.

ask them how they'd mark a wheelchair user or someone with cerebral palsy. If the say they'd be able to compensate for that then they're being discriminatory.

No. Don't do this. That's not how the law works. Sometimes reasonable adjustments can be made for disabled people - if this is done, able-bodied people can't complain that it is unfair that they are not getting similar treatment.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I just don't think you'd get anywhere with this.

Did he fail much & would he be able to pass if allowed to do them again?

Could be that he won't be able to get through this course & might have to try a different route.

That said, he might have done OK as a child as different things were required?

Your son gained a place on this course and is owed a duty of care by the people who selected him. If he's ungainly now he must have been ungainly then, when he applied.

The application process is about assessing potential and talents to determine whether someone should be selected to start the course.

That doesn’t mean he’ll necessarily be at the required standard at the end of the first year. If he hasn’t made sufficient progress, then he won’t pass. Students aren’t automatically owed a pass if they’re selected for a course.

A situation with a disabled student is quite different to one that’s just not good enough at movement on his course.

If the exam board agrees he can redo the assessments he failed and he then passes, he can move on to the second year. If they don’t agree or he fails again, he’s off. I think from the tone of his tutorial he has pretty much accepted he is off. As I mentioned before he did try to plead his case and it fell on deaf ears. Personally, I think he should move on now, try another course or something completely different whilst attending auditions where possible. My main worry is the fact he thinks his life is over, he is so low and not answering his phone or responding to texts as his Mum it’s fucking awful.

That sounds a very very cruel thing to say. Half the people on law courses haven't a hope in hell of ever working in a law firm as a solicitor as they can hardly write or speak properly but the courses take their money and arguably con them out of it. It depends what we think is the better way - loving encouragement even if you have no chance or sticking the boot in. I think it's better to be kinder to people and also he can act anyway - why doesn't he try to get some roles now - you don't need these course - just keep at the course as if it's a degree then he could do law or all kinds of other things once he has his degree and keep acting as a hobby and also do acting on the side, put on some plays - just get on with doing it whilst doing the course. He needs to ignore what they said and try to cheer up about it.

It sounds a bit like the brutal way ballet schools have often worked and Russian gymnast coaches - relentless nastiness which in my view is not a price worth paying.

OP, this situation must be incredibly worrying for you. However, I am sure he is just needing time to himself to mentally recover

Two things: he almost certainly won’t pass without a significant improvement. You’d be amazed how many students think exactly the same thing again (or minimal changes) will change their results. So if he wants to resit, he’ll need to really work on his movement all summer.

Secondly: just because he remembers what was said in a particular way does not mean that’s what actually happened. Students are often extremely unreliable narrators of their own experiences in classes, especially if the session has been upsetting and stressful because they’ve had bad news. I’d imagine this is even more the case when they’re talking to their parents.

It would be much better to move away from whether his tutors said X (and getting annoyed at them) and concentrate on what actually matters: that he needs to improve his movement. Even if he doesn’t continue with the course, improving his movement can only help him.

He should pop back and see his tutors. Presumably if he'll never make it as an actor, he should follow in their steps and get into lecturing.....if you can't do it, teach it....right?! Such plonkers! Go find your son and hug him. 💐

My main worry is the fact he thinks his life is over, he is so low and not answering his phone or responding to texts as his Mum it’s fucking awful.

Of course it is. It’s awful to feel there’s nothing you can do.

He knows you’re there when he’s ready to talk to you.

I don't think there's an easy answer. If your son has failed and the tutors think he's likely to fail any resits, then it probably isn't unreasonable for them to suggest to him that maybe he's not cut out for the course or indeed the profession. It wouldn't be kind for them to say that he'll pass the resits if he won't.

I did have a tutor suggest fairly bluntly that maybe I should quit my undergrad degree as I hated it and failed a couple of second year modules. I retook the modules and went on to get a first so I suppose I proved him wrong, but then I switched to law post-grad as I still hated it so maybe not. I was a bit surprised by his bluntness, but I had no real desire to do the job in practice (other than the money) so it wasn't particularly upsetting. I imagine if he's got his heart set on a career in acting it would be heartbreaking and will take some time to get over it.

I would suggest that you let him take the resits if he wants to/can do, but then give him some time to think about what he wants to do next whether it's stand-up or a more conventional job. All you can do is reassure him that he can still try other paths to get into acting if he wants to, and there are many other careers that he might not have even thought about that he might prefer.

Yes I think you should be angry with them. As a teacher and former uni tutor that’s not an acceptable way to give feedback. For heavens’ sake, they are not Hollywood or RSC casting directors, they are uni tutors who have failed to effectively teach someone who sounds pretty committed and talented.

Imagine for a moment he was doing history or geography and had failed a module. Would they be right to say ‘you’ll never be a geographer now’ or would they talk about re-takes and feedback?

If he was good enough to get on the course against competition, he’s good enough to finish it—if he wants. It sounds as though he may have thought these parts of the course a bit silly or irrelevant and perhaps (horror!) made these thoughts evident. That would be enough for some of the slightly precious colleagues I have known to take pleasure in emphasising how crucial those skills were by talking about him leaving the course.

How absurdly pretentious for any performing arts course to imply if you’re not going to be an actor you might as well give up. As previous posters have pointed out, there’s a quantum leap between completing the course and being an actor anyway—they’re not exactly going to guarantee the job!

I suspect he has fallen foul of a couple of disappointed actors who are power playing. Seriously, no uni tutor worth their salt would suggest he gives up as he isn’t going to make it as an actor. They may be worried that they will be called out about their teaching. Also worried about their statistics.

If he wants to stay, he may have to use all his acting skills to ask for feedback, follow it to the letter and pass. If he doesn’t (and he may feel that they are not teaching him what he needs) then a change of degree might be a good idea. But if I were him I’d kick up by charmingly asking what support they’re proposing to give and spend the summer fuming and developing his comedy routine based on this experience.

Hugs to him and to you.

So many people have been told this and they were wrong. Don't let him give up. Its only an opinion.

"who have failed to effectively teach someone"

I don't think that that is really fair.

Urgh I went to performing arts school and it was truly brutal.

It made or broke us though. The ones who it made have really flown and the ones (like me) who realised that they couldn’t actually hack it used the skills they learnt to do something else.
It was the most awful four years of my life but to be honest if I lived my life 100 times I’d do it every time.

He must be talented though, there’s no way they’d let him on the course if he isn’t.

In my first year I was told that I just wasn’t that interesting to watch, but by the end I was one of the favourites.
It’s so brutal though.

eats tub of once cream at the memory

As a teacher and former uni tutor that’s not an acceptable way to give feedback.

Presumably then you know that what students say about the oral feedback you gave them is often radically different to what you actually said. And the accounts they give their parents can be coloured by emotion and/or reworked to make you the ‘bad guy’.

There’s no point in getting angry at the tutors when you can’t know what they actually said. Especially since blaming them is a displacement from the real issue, which is that the DS hasn’t passed.

Oh and a well known technique of a drama school is that they spend the first year breaking you so they can build you back up the way they want you in the following years.

I can think of quite a few excellent comic actors who were tall and ungraceful - Stephen Fry, John Cleese, Martin Clunes, Stephen Merchant

Clunes is the only one who trained as an actor though. Fry and Cleese got their start in the Cambridge Footlights and Merchant by performing stand-up.

OP, it sounds like this course is a poor match for your DS, but the good news is that there are plenty of people (including the examples above) who make it in the business without having formal training. Once he's had time to lick his wounds he needs to think about alternative paths to his goal. If he's good as an open mic performer then maybe comedy is more his route.

when he said that he believed he would make it as an actor one of the tutors said ‘well I could say I believe I’m going to go to Hollywood but it doesn’t mean ever going to get there.’
Harsh phrasing, but quite true.

What I find happens (based on students I've taught and friends who have done performance and theatre degrees etc) is that often undergraduate drama/music students are used to being top in their school, the leading person in their am dram group, the star person of a youth theatre. They are told all the way through school and college that they are amazing and exceptionally talented.
Generally they are talented, but most not that exceptionally so. Big fish, small pond sort of situation.

Then they go to university or drama school or conservatoire and suddenly they are in a sea of people who are just like them. What made them exceptional at home is just average for their course. It hits hard. There's that moment of this is a tough industry abd actually all these people could be up with me for a part or a job and this is terrifying because they are also as good, if not better than me.

Passing a course vs making it in the industry are 2 different things.

Sometimes tutors do have to deliver messages that aren't all 'you're amazing and you'll make it'. That's part of being responsible professionals. I know I've had talks with trainees where (in kinder words) my line was 'right now you need to consider x y z and if this is right for you'. Not to be horrible but to be honest.

I'm putting myself in your shoes, OP, and I really really feel for you. Regardless of everything, of course you must be so worried and be full of concern for your son. I don't have any advice but I do hope you are able to see him as soon as you can and that he picks up, whatever his future. My best wishes to you. Take care.