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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men wanting to be Women

823 replies

bert3400 · 16/05/2018 22:26

To think transgender women really have no idea what being a women is ? . Maybe it's time we had a 3rd Gender . Be interested in hearing what real women & transwomen feel ?

OP posts:
Hateloggingin · 16/05/2018 23:24

I have read many of the trans threads, I have a question and apologies if this has been answered before, I am not trying to be disrespectful or goady.

I have heard of cases where people want their legs amputated so badly they pay others to do it for them/lie in front of a train etc. They genuinely feel they should be amputees. I assume the medical profession tries to help them with counselling.

Sort of similar with anxorexia, they are treated with counselling.

How \why is this different with trans? Why is that particular body dysmorphia ‘allowed’ and treated with hormones\surgery?

I worry (on the other hand) that years ago non heterosexuals were seen as ‘ill’ and terrible things done in the name of ‘treatment’. I mean I’m wary of saying ‘it’s all in their heads and they need counselling’, but, in the anorexia and amputee examples that would be the outcome surely?

MyRelationshipIsWeird · 16/05/2018 23:24

I agree it would bebgreat more men felt this way. I believe many do feel this way but fear the backlash if they publically come out with this view. As I've seen on this threw and social media women who stand up for their basic rights get so much abuse for wanting to protect their right to privacy and a safe space.

@siwel123 We do, and yet we are doing it anyway, because it needs to be said. Please be an ally and make your voice heard. I can assure you that men who say these things come up against a hell of a lot less abuse than women from what I've seen! And funnily enough their views seem to be taken more seriously, who'd have thunk it?!

LadyMisty · 16/05/2018 23:25

Curry I never thought of it that way, but yes, transwomen do need some form of protection too. I empathise with their situation. Not feeling as though they "belong" anywhere must be hard.

OrderMeAnotherCurry · 16/05/2018 23:26

I bet if my family posted here then certain people would no doubt think they are transphobic.

My family have been nothing but supportive of me during my difficult teenage years and everything I went through during that period of my life. They have been nothing but supportive of me during my physical and social transition.

I still remember my mother storming down to my school to give them a piece of her mind after they failed to address transphobic bullying by certain students.

Yet if my mother or any member of my family were to post here and engage in discussion about this they would no doubt be labelled transphobic and bigoted by certain posters.

They are intelligent and rational people. They know you can't change sex. They know that gender reassignment doesn't magically turn someone into the opposite sex.

None of those things mean they are transphobic or that they didn't support their family member when they were going through this.

Pratchet · 16/05/2018 23:26

Y Bert I totally agree with you except for saying gender instead of sex, like saying we could have a vote on whether men could join our gender. The controversial thing is them 'joining' our sex big out gender. No one is that bothered if they do the social stereotypes, it's when they want our sex based rights.

But I don't want to be critical and I know it sounds critical. I want to make it not sound critical lol!

Pratchet · 16/05/2018 23:30

Weird: I echo that. So few men speak up. These are our husbands, brothers, fathers, sons, and they stay silent. Sad

OrderMeAnotherCurry · 16/05/2018 23:31

MN is not anti trans IMO.

Anti self identification, yes. Anti trans rights activists, definitely. But anti trans? Nope.

I think a self identification law will be very damaging for transsexuals and people with genuine dysphoria. And I know I'm not the only transsexual who thinks that. Self ID hasn't even coming in yet but I (and other transsexuals I know) am already dealing with the impact of it.

OrderMeAnotherCurry · 16/05/2018 23:31

*come in

siwel123 · 16/05/2018 23:40

@Wierd. Don't worry I see myself as an ally, I have no right to walk into a women's chanign room and stand their naked so why do other men?

More and more men are speaking up to the other poster and many do support You, however a lot seem uneducated in the topic which I feel is a shame.

NotTerfNorCis · 16/05/2018 23:41

Trans women are real women.

They are men who 'identify' as women, whatever that really means. Liking feminine stereotypes, probably.

Did you see that Bergdorf didn't have a 'typically' female brain; Bergdorf was trans; Bergdorf hadn't been socialised female, and it showed?

LightofaSilveryMoon · 16/05/2018 23:41

Men who wish to present as women are still men.

I just wish the Class "Men" could be bold enough and extensive enough to accept non-conforming men, instead of MRAs and TRAs trying to force and shove them into unwillling women's spaces.

JustWomanWillDoThanks · 16/05/2018 23:41

"I don't think anyone can say what it feels like to be a woman."

I agree because 'woman' isn't a feeling or an emotion, it's a biological reality. One we can't swap no matter how much any of us may want to.

Original poster
bert3400 · 16/05/2018 23:42

It is a very emotive issue and I am trying to see it from all points of view . I can see that a fully Transwomen for example could not go into a male prison , on the other hand for example, a man who ID,s as a women could not go into a women prison . It's a very complicated situation that does need to be addressed. And just because I don't want to share the changing room with a trans women does not make me transphobic...it justmakes me uncomfortable. But there are some real serious issues with women safety that can not be ignored.

OP posts:
BlackForestCake · 16/05/2018 23:46

There is no one way to be a woman

Yes there is. Have a female body.

tobee · 16/05/2018 23:51

@MyRelationshipIsWeird thanks for the analogy and for making me laugh to boot!

MyRelationshipIsWeird · 16/05/2018 23:54

I agree because 'woman' isn't a feeling or an emotion, it's a biological reality. One we can't swap no matter how much any of us may want to. Exactly, I'm sure if it were possible to identify out of the pay gap, being expected to pick up the wifework, sexual harassment, having the phrase "is it the time of the month?" thrown at you whenever you get upset, being expected to be the default carer for DCs and DParents etc there would be many more transmen! As it stands, we can identify all we like, but we're still stuck with the shitty end of the stick.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 16/05/2018 23:59

Nice to see you back Curry.

Sadly I don't think all the 'you're all so transphobic' posters will be back.

JustbackfromBangkok · 17/05/2018 00:01

I am really disgusted by the way this whole thing has taken off and is dominated by TRAs. The language and threats made against actual women ( people with XX chromosomes) are horrific.
I spend a lot of time in Thailand where the 3rd sex is acknowledged, treated with tolerance and respect and cause no problems whatsoever. I am happy to live and let live when people are polite and don't insist on invading and taking over other people's safe spaces. I have a daughter and I am really glad she is not planning to return to the UK.

FithColumnist · 17/05/2018 00:02

We literally need to start numbering these threads. I mean I'm in no way disagreeing with the main thrust of the thread, but I haven't disagreed with the previous 874 threads either. I just want a way to keep count?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 17/05/2018 00:04

*875

LightofaSilveryMoon · 17/05/2018 00:10

These things must be discussed because there are issues that need discussing. Women and girls' rights, in this case.

ConciseandNice · 17/05/2018 00:13

I think the only thing that gets to me is when people (some pps upthread for instance), a man without a penis is a woman. It’s reductive and utterly wrong. Women are not just damaged men, not just men that have had their penises removed and any woman knows this. A transwoman knows this. She has a female brain, she is in a body which doesn’t reflect the way her mind expects it to and that must be incredibly hard.

Pratchet · 17/05/2018 00:17

Concise: what do you mean, a female brain?

HelenaDove · 17/05/2018 00:26

If trans women are real women then surely they can pay a salon for facial hair removal.

I (an XX woman) just had to fork out for this again today like i have to every month.

ConciseandNice · 17/05/2018 00:27

Well I went away and read a bit because I wasn’t entirely sure of what I meant @Pratchet. It’s a good question. I guess I always assumed that there is such a thing as a male brain and a female brain and that they are different neurologically and maybe physically, but now, I’m not sure! It’s interesting. I find it hard to believe that socialisation has anything to do with it because why would a person start thinking that they’re in the wrong body? I’m a bit flummoxed really. I wish I knew more. It could be a long night!