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Men wanting to be Women

823 replies

bert3400 · 16/05/2018 22:26

To think transgender women really have no idea what being a women is ? . Maybe it's time we had a 3rd Gender . Be interested in hearing what real women & transwomen feel ?

OP posts:
Ireneony · 21/05/2018 18:39

Ignoring the whole 'is there isn't there aggression' thing for a moment and getting back to the point -

Are transwomen women? Yes, if you define woman as a person of either biological sex who conforms to the set of stereotypical behaviours and personality types typically associated with human females.

No, if woman means an adult human with female dna and reproductive system.

If we say they are women in terms of the social understanding of the word, that doesn't change the fact that females have specific needs and vulnerabilities as a result of their biology and should be afforded the right to discuss, gather, compete, etc under the protected characteristic of 'female'.

Personally, I think that transwomen are transwomen and have their own needs, experiences and vulnerabilities that need protecting and discussing. Lumping them together with biological females doesn't do them any favours either. Everyone just argues about who has it worse and semantics and feeling excluded and nothing gets done. Pretending they are the same as biological females is dismissive and unhelpful.

grandplans · 21/05/2018 18:40

People are usually deleted for mis-gendering.

Are you saying that's aggression @RatRolyPoly?

EllenRipley · 21/05/2018 18:46

Transwomen are not women. They are transwomen, whether they have their male penises removed or not. They have every right to 'act' and dress as a woman, and surgically change their bodies. And I do realise that this isn't just a simple 'choice' and that there are complex influences at work, which I wouldn't pretend to understand (because I'm not trans). It's a confluence of factors and experience that makes a person unique (for the same reasons that being female-born is unique to being a woman) so I can see there would be an argument for a third gender.

I really do struggle to empathise with the concept of transwomen being or becoming 'real women'.

MIdgebabe · 21/05/2018 18:49

Well I would have trouble with a definition of woman as of either sex but conforming to a sterotype because then I become a nothing.

And who decides who fits the sterotype? The transwomen who say that they are different to women and understand the need for sex segregation at times seem to me to be much more female than some of the more assertive transwomen ARE women ones who really seem to act like men.

MIdgebabe · 21/05/2018 18:51

And if only some women had to fit a sterotype that would surely be discrimination

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 19:31

Transactivists seek to shut down debate and when they are unsuccessful they seek to control the language, tone, direction and subject of debate. This is what you are doing.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a transactivist are they? I'm not trying to shut down the debate. You are doing that quite successfully on your own as are many of the posters on this thread. People can't be bothered to debate if they are just going to be shouted down and/or insulted.

Ireneony · 21/05/2018 19:32

I don't believe in the concept of gender outside of a social construct used to oppress the sexes. I am a woman as in adult human female and my behaviours and personality have no bearing on that.

Transpeople believe gender is innate and they are a woman if they say they are. I'm willing to agree that the concept of a woman as a social construct does exist, but my thoughts would be that we should destroy these gender roles rather than reinforce them through the whole 'trans' concept. Because it's sexist and harmful and limiting.

So I don't agree with their philosophy but I can't say that what they are experiencing is not real or whatever because, well, it's real to them.

So much like any other belief I don't share, I can respect them whilst also asserting my belief and speaking up when I think they're beliefs are infringing on the rights of others. They can be a 'woman' in terms of a nebulous set of stereotypes that I actually find offensive, but they aren't female, and being female ought to be a protected characteristic for a multitude of reasons.

Some transwomen are saying they are female and need to be treated as such in every way in society which is simply ridiculous. Transwomen and females might both be women but they are completely different groups that have different issues, needs and vulnerabilities that mean being male or female matters and is not an identity.

Ireneony · 21/05/2018 19:36

Hmm. Their not they're! Blush

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 19:42

It was a genuine question. I’d like to see what counts as aggression from ‘our’ side. Because posts do get zapped, and the MNHQ mods do police such things. And I’d like to see if there are any common words/phrases etc. If you can’t give a few examples from something you say is all over then I’m leaning towards you not being able to find any.

I would lean towards me not thinking it worth the effort. Just looking up this page though, I can see
"You push and you goad and you lie and then you shriek about how we are so aggressive and mean and nasty."
I think that is quite aggressive. You may disagree.

Ereshkigal · 21/05/2018 19:45

You push and you goad and you lie and then you shriek about how we are so aggressive and mean and nasty."
I think that is quite aggressive. You may disagree.

True though.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 19:46

People can't be bothered to debate if they are just going to be shouted down and/or insulted.

Tbh I'd love a proper debate about things. There have been some transwomen here who have participated in some great and enlightening debate here, but really they are pushed aside by the trans activists too. Tbf, and I don't want to be rude, but I don't think I have ever seen anything resembling debate from the transactivists. Sad but true.

Ereshkigal · 21/05/2018 19:50

Tbf, and I don't want to be rude, but I don't think I have ever seen anything resembling debate from the transactivists. Sad but true.

They even made a hashtag about their unwillingness to debate.

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 19:57

Tbf, and I don't want to be rude, but I don't think I have ever seen anything resembling debate from the transactivists. Sad but true.

They probably can't be bothered either. They don't need to convince you.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 20:05

They probably can't be bothered either. They don't need to convince you.

No, they just want to threaten women and try to control them instead. Ain't gonna work though.

KennDodd · 21/05/2018 20:11

If trans women are women, how do we distinguish between women and men? Is there any way?

GladAllOver · 21/05/2018 20:17

If trans women are women, how do we distinguish between women and men? Is there any way?

We don't. They are entirely different. A transwoman is not a woman and never can be unless science can find a way of changing chromosomes.

Pratchet · 21/05/2018 20:18

Oh my goodness Rat you total fibber! It's that common? Bring it! Of course there's a point.

Ereshkigal · 21/05/2018 21:06

They probably can't be bothered either. They don't need to convince you.

Don't be silly, if they weren't bothered about our views they would leave us alone, as we are irrelevant, right? But they don't, because they know most people don't really buy their bullshit and they are terrified of public debate. Witness the Genderquake fiasco. Hashtag nodebate.

fontofnoknowledge · 21/05/2018 21:27

I missed this pithy little interjection from Abowlofbabelfish this morning.
Sums up the whole delusional argument.

So no, the science says that sex is immutable and a binary. If you discover otherwise do let us know and you’ll be up for a Nobel.

Perfect .

PencilsInSpace · 21/05/2018 22:39

Dungeondragon15 - They don't need to convince you

Actually they do if they want the law changed. Because we are half the population and every day more and more of us are becoming aware of what's going on and are saying 'hang on a minute ...'

Do you understand why this debate is happening right now in the UK?

Have you thought about how the proposed changes compromise women's rights and the safeguarding of children?

MyRelationshipIsWeird · 21/05/2018 22:40

@Ireneonly your post sums it up perfectly for me and it also fits neatly into two screenshots so that I can send it to my DP and say “this...!” as you put it so much more succinctly than I could! Thank you.

Ireneony · 22/05/2018 07:50

Myrelationshipisweird no worries, I'm glad my perspective resonated with someone else Smile

Willow2017 · 22/05/2018 11:00

They probably can't be bothered either. They don't need to convince you

No i suppose not cos death threats and violence and intimidation works so much better!

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