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Original poster

Men wanting to be Women

823 replies

bert3400 · 16/05/2018 22:26

To think transgender women really have no idea what being a women is ? . Maybe it's time we had a 3rd Gender . Be interested in hearing what real women & transwomen feel ?

OP posts:
Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 18:13

The only aggression I have seen here is from trans activists who have come here purely for that reason. From the people who have concerns about self ID, I have only seen reasoned debate. But if you do see things you find aggressive from either side, then of course you should report it and let MNHQ make a decision about it.

Pratchet · 21/05/2018 18:14

agree that self ID could be a big problem but if you want people to listen to your argument on that, you need to leave those who genuinely believe that they were born in the wrong body alone

Please don't tell us what to do. It's rude.

Transactivists seek to shut down debate and when they are unsuccessful they seek to control the language, tone, direction and subject of debate. This is what you are doing.

Feminists know what is salient to this debate: that is, biological, material reality and the ability to describe it truthfully. Without that, we can't talk about sexism, discrimination, oppression or male violence. Do not tell us how to talk about these things. Thank you.

RatRolyPoly · 21/05/2018 18:14

Ah, so there is aggression, but it's justified. Get your story straight.

And as for that justification you say goading I say disagreeing. By all means, link to something goady.

And then there's the fact that actually, the aggression I've experienced is nothing compared to the aggression I've seen dished out on others.

All around it's not looking good, is it.

MIdgebabe · 21/05/2018 18:15

Ah...that's my experiance colouring how I phrase things. It was always men telling me I was aggressive if I opened my mouth. Unconscious bias affects us all! I also know that some women can find almost anything aggressive but i tend not to know so many people like that. And some people find nothing verbal offensive. And some people find any kind of disagreement offensive. Ask if you like x, you say no they get offended and suggest you should have lied.

And I do tend to treat things at face value.

MiggeldyHiggins · 21/05/2018 18:16

Ah, so there is aggression, but it's justified. Get your story straight

No. There isn't. Its just more of goady bullshit

TERFragetteCity · 21/05/2018 18:16

And as for that justification you say goading I say disagreeing.

You are perpetually goady - which is why so many people have tuned you out.

Pratchet · 21/05/2018 18:16

Stop making stuff up Rat.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 18:18

Ah, so there is aggression, but it's justified. Get your story straight.

Oh yes, sorry. I have seen some utterly appalling aggression from the trans activists. They take turns coming over from Twitter to set the wimmin straight. MNHQ tends to delete it when it's really aggressive. Is that straight enough for you?

RatRolyPoly · 21/05/2018 18:19

From the people who have concerns about self ID, I have only seen reasoned debate.

Well you can either take my word (and that of others) for it or not.

But if you do see things you find aggressive from either side, then of course you should report it and let MNHQ make a decision about it.

We do. There are frequent deletions. Are frequent posts from MNHQ themselves regarding the tone of the debate.

Transactivists seek to shut down debate and when they are unsuccessful they seek to control the language, tone, direction and subject of debate. This is what you are doing.

Consider for a second that there is a basic level of human decency that some people think it is important to uphold. They are as justified in expressing that as you are in however you choose to make your points.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 18:20

I've experienced is nothing compared to the aggression I've seen dished out on others

Is there something in particular you are referring to? Please do share. If it's that bad we'll back you and report it too.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 18:21

Well you can either take my word (and that of others) for it or not.

Well I don't think I need to. I do read most of the threads in feminist chat myself.

GladAllOver · 21/05/2018 18:22

So you can't show the aggressive posts either, Rat.
Just because we ask you questions that you can't answer, that isn't aggressive.

I have no ill feeling towards any man that genuinely wants to become a transwoman. In fact I can admire someone who is willing to go through the pain of the operations to remove male sex organs. It shows dedication and commitment. Personally (others may disagree) I would even accept such a person into womens' spaces - excepting sports.

But I will never accept that a man can simply call himself a woman in order to use womens' facilities.

I don't believe that is aggression. Do you?

MiggeldyHiggins · 21/05/2018 18:23

Consider for a second that there is a basic level of human decency that some people think it is important to uphold.
You're not one of them though

RatRolyPoly · 21/05/2018 18:24

I appreciate it makes it easier for you (those of you who are above) to make this as hominem - about "me" - but that rather fails to recognise that I'm not talking about the aggression against me.

But hey, let's talk more about me, rather than address the fact that this accusation has been levied so many times that MNHQ actually step into threads, raise concerns about the number of deletions and remind everybody to kindly stop being so... I don't know... aggressive? That's probably the word, isn't it.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 18:25

I do think you should share these aggressive posts Rat. If they are as bad as you feel they are then they really should be reported. Don't you think so?

GladAllOver · 21/05/2018 18:26

Consider for a second that there is a basic level of human decency that some people think it is important to uphold.

I think many people believe it is a basic level of human decency for men not to invade women's private spaces.

MiggeldyHiggins · 21/05/2018 18:26

Yawn. A word loses all meaning when you say it so many times. We're so hurt that you think us aggressive. Happy now?

RatRolyPoly · 21/05/2018 18:27

This is a pointless conversation. You see no ships. Everyone on the mainland is constantly reporting that they see ships, the waves are there in the water where the ships used to be, and yet nobody here has ever seen a ship.

Bowlofbabelfish · 21/05/2018 18:27

There is really little point in telling you which posts I find aggressive and/or antitransgender as you will then argue that they are not so really the exercise will be a waste of time. We will not agree and it will just be a futile argument.

It was a genuine question. I’d like to see what counts as aggression from ‘our’ side. Because posts do get zapped, and the MNHQ mods do police such things. And I’d like to see if there are any common words/phrases etc. If you can’t give a few examples from something you say is all over then I’m leaning towards you not being able to find any.

The examples I just posted - they’re aggressive and the mods zapped them.

Feminists and women who speak out have faced physical violence and threats then and now. From the suffragettes being jailed and force fed, corrective rapes of activists worldwide, through to some severe beatings in the 60s and 70s to women in their 60s being punched by large men who say they are women at speakers corner.

We understand aggression. What women do here is voice an opinion. Men who don’t want women to speak take that as an aggressive act - the mere act of a woman speaking her mind is construed as violent

I have never, ever seen anybincotement to violence in here from feminists. I’ve seen sarcasm, acerbic discussion and I’ve seen people have their arses handed to them verbally. But I’ve not seen threats unlessbits from the TRA side, like those examples above.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 18:28

Its not all about you, ok I get that. But you've noticed all this horrible stuff against other people? Don't you want to do something about it? To support them?

RatRolyPoly · 21/05/2018 18:31

I do plenty about it. What on earth makes you think I don't?

Mamaryllis · 21/05/2018 18:32

I don’t get the aggression stuff. For me there is a definitive line between robust holding of a stance, and a threat. A man wielding a baseball bat with ‘die cis scum’ or masked men in black wearing boots holding chained dogs, or a man punching a woman are all on a different scale to women to... what? Women saying if you have a penis you are a man? I’m trying to envisage the aggression from women and I’m struggling.
The ‘retaliation’ thing is interesting. If people are seeing aggressive toned responses in a debate, again that’s different to actually instigating an ‘I wanna fuck up some terfs’ post, or staging a photo shoot with a trans-themed baseball bat.

Mamaryllis · 21/05/2018 18:36

Deletions are inconsequential. That’s why the cacophony when the silly twitter police start. It’s easy to pretend that posters were beyond the pale and have been deleted, but often it’s just copy and paste from unpopular articles (anything mentioning SG) correct use of pronouns, or ‘yawn’ or ‘bless’. Hardly enough to make s grown make quake in his size ten bovver boots and wig.

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 18:36

Well you said there were lots of aggressive posts here. If there are then I can only assume you haven't done something about it. Otherwise they would be gone. You said you didn't want to go back and find them. Which I can only assume means you haven't done anything about them and you've decided to leave them there. But if people have been hurt by this agression that you talk about, then I don't understand why you wouldn't do something about it.

MiggeldyHiggins · 21/05/2018 18:39

This is a pointless conversation. You see no ships. Everyone on the mainland is constantly reporting that they see ships, the waves are there in the water where the ships used to be, and yet nobody here has ever seen a ship

Back at you. But in our case the ship is a massive fucking tanker (called self ID) and its heading right for us all and you still claim you can't see it and are pissing about whining about toy boats instead.