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Original poster

Men wanting to be Women

823 replies

bert3400 · 16/05/2018 22:26

To think transgender women really have no idea what being a women is ? . Maybe it's time we had a 3rd Gender . Be interested in hearing what real women & transwomen feel ?

OP posts:
TERFragetteCity · 21/05/2018 16:21

Not if they threatened violence

Lol. Tigers cant talk.

Bowlofbabelfish · 21/05/2018 16:22

I don't go up to Christians and shout "god doesn't exist", but if they want to prosecute me for blasphemy for saying I don't believe in god they can fuck off.

It’s worh pointing out here that tony Blair did try to get a blasphemy law through. I think Rowan Atkinson was one of the people who led the campaign against it. He rightly pointed out that pretty much every sketch with any religion in it would fall foul. Now most of the Christians I know think that vicar of dibley is pretty gentle humour, but it would have fallen foul of this law.

Ditto father ted, and the world would be a poorer place without that Meisterverk of comedy.

So I don’t go up to Christians (or any other religion) and start having a go at them. Nor would I with any transwoman I know. Where I draw the line is where their demand for an extra eight removes one of mine.

And self ID will. So I oppose it. I don’t hate transgender people. I think they should be able to live their lives in a way that they are safe, and that society should smash gender stereotypes so that anyone can ‘present’ as whatever they like. But when my safe spaces and child safeguarding is threatened ill speak up. Because that doesn’t make anyone safer (including transwoman, including kids with gender issues.)

Noqonterfy · 21/05/2018 16:28

I am sure that they have been using "female spaces" for a long time and it hasn't been an issue because you didn't know about it.

I'm sure they have. It hasn't gone unnoticed though, women can tell the difference and have also been accepting of transwomen quietly getting on with their lives. Self ID however makes it extremely difficult to challenge if there is a problem.

grandplans · 21/05/2018 16:28

Not if they threatened violence

But you have no proof the Tiger threatened violence! TERFragetteCity just assumed the Tiger wanted to cause her harm. Why are you assuming Tigers are violent? There are plenty of occasions when Tigers have been near humans and not hurt them.

Tigerphobia on the other hand is illegal. You are guilty of a hate crime.

Ireneony · 21/05/2018 16:28

I am not aggressive to any Trans people where are you getting that? I'm not scared of them either and I don't hate anyone. I'm saying that there is a need for female only spaces in some situations and that is being dismissed. There is nothing aggressive about that statement.

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 16:29

Lol. Tigers cant talk.

I was answering the question of whether I would argue with someone who said they were a tiger and wanted to gnaw my arm off.Hmm

TwittleBee · 21/05/2018 16:30

There seems to be a lot of talk about aggression towards transpeople on MN but I haven't encountered it and that we have transpeople joining in on the debate (many actually on the opposing side of Self-ID) surely only highlights how there isn't any aggression? Just debate and concern about women being eroded and their spaces being taken away.

Ereshkigal · 21/05/2018 16:32

I was answering the question of whether I would argue with someone who said they were a tiger and wanted to gnaw my arm off.

Why didn't you answer the question in good faith according to the analogy she made in the first place? Hmm

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 16:34

But you have no proof the Tiger threatened violence! TERFragetteCity just assumed the Tiger wanted to cause her harm.

No she didn't just assume. She said asked what I would do if someone said they were a tiger and wanted to gnaw my arm off.

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 16:39

There seems to be a lot of talk about aggression towards transpeople on MN but I haven't encountered it and that we have transpeople joining in on the debate (many actually on the opposing side of Self-ID) surely only highlights how there isn't any aggression? Just debate and concern about women being eroded and their spaces being taken away.

They join the debate to try and get you to see their point of view but the aggression is such that most give up. I have only ever been on a couple of threads regarding transgender issues and I doubt that I will go on any more as it is really not a pleasant experience.

TwittleBee · 21/05/2018 16:39

This whole tiger scenario makes me think of the current lesbians and "lady dicks" issue going on....

TwittleBee · 21/05/2018 16:42

Dungeondragon15 many of the transpeople on the NM debates are welcomed though; I think of Curry for an example. You can the Curry's posts further upthread.

Other debates where transpeople have come on and tried to get feminists to see their point of view haven't faced aggression, just differing opinion and a good solid debate.

grandplans · 21/05/2018 16:48

Is it just me or are those people who are passionate about supporting trans activist ideology not the best at following logical arguments?

Bowlofbabelfish · 21/05/2018 16:48

the aggression is such that most give up

Aggression? I don’t see aggression from MN regulars. I see debate. I see women putting their point of view forwards but the only aggression I see is from TRA and MRA types.,

What on this thread do you count as aggression??

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 16:48

Dungeondragon15 many of the transpeople on the NM debates are welcomed though; I think of Curry for an example. You can the Curry's posts further upthread.

As I said, I have only been on a couple of threads, and many posters were far from welcoming.

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 16:50

Aggression? I don’t see aggression from MN regulars. I see debate. I see women putting their point of view forwards but the only aggression I see is from TRA and MRA types.,

You would.

TwittleBee · 21/05/2018 16:50

far from welcoming is different from "aggression"

MiggeldyHiggins · 21/05/2018 16:54

Women are called aggressive and strident when they dare to make any noise. Shut up women, get back in your boxes. It's so pervasive that women do it to other women.

Bowlofbabelfish · 21/05/2018 16:55

Well then can you give an example or two of what you consider to be aggressive on this thread?

TwittleBee · 21/05/2018 16:55

Men are aggressive towards women which is why we need safe spaces for women. Its why we need to feel able to question a man being in our safe space. Its one of the reasons why women are so worried about Self-ID

TwittleBee · 21/05/2018 16:56

only been on a couple of threads, and many posters were far from welcoming

Ah you should easily be able to remember what threads those were then and find those "many posters"

Dungeondragon15 · 21/05/2018 16:57

far from welcoming is different from "aggression"

Aggressive/far from welcoming/insulting (e.g.grandplans posts). Either way, I don't think it encourages debate. You may think you are winning the argument but you are generally just preaching to the converted. Noone else is reading.

Ireneony · 21/05/2018 16:58

Dungeondragon

You accused me personally of being aggressive towards trans people in my comment, can you tell me how and where I have been aggressive?

I suggest that it is not 'aggression' that makes people give up, but your seeming inability to answer any of the reasoned points we're making about our objections to the notion that 'transwomen are women'

I personally am willing to concede the word 'woman' to include biological males that identify with the gender stereotypes of 'woman'. I would prefer that stereotypes didn't exist and people were free to be who they want without being confined to notions of 'gender'. But they can be women, if woman means wearing dresses and makeup and doing girly things, sure.

They can not be female though and that is where the difference matters. Females should be able to compete against other females not male bodied people who will always outperform them. Vulnerable females should have access to safe spaces away from males because males are known to present a danger to them. Females should have their specific rights and needs represented as it makes them more vulnerable (maternity health, care and rights, termination, contraception, employment, gynae health etc, all down to our biology). It's really not that contraversial.

DodoPatrol · 21/05/2018 17:00

I am unable to see male people as women.

Therefore, in order not to be 'transphobic' to those who insist that TWAW, I actively have to lie, and active dishonesty makes me uneasy, uncomfortable, wary and keen to get away from the conversation. It's like trying to be not-too-rude to a Jehovah's Witness, but without the option of shutting the door.

If you see that inability as aggression, I find that quite odd.

Pidge, Curry, Transhobbit et al. on this site are all happy to discuss their lives and views without wanting everyone around them to lie politely, which seems a much better plan.

Ireneony · 21/05/2018 17:01

Or controversial! Blush