To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

I agree OP. If a man asks a woman in a date, he pays - or don't ask her in the first place! Of course, I would offer to pay half, but would find it a turn-off if he accepted. It's not gentlemanly as far as I"m concerned and I don't want to be with a man who has no manners. My DH always paid and took me home and this is normal to most people.
Having said that, I think things are probably much more casual with Tinder and online dating? I guess if you are meeting someone very briefly from an online site, you might feel differently.

Laurel - just read your post and you're probably right. However, to me, having different roles does not equate to being less equal. People gravitate toward different types.

Just reread my post and the last sentence is unnecessarily harsh. Apologies. Lack of sleep grrr.

Perhaps he couldn't afford to pay?
Perhaps he thought he was living in 2018?
Haven't women worked hard for equality? Does it only apply when we want it to or all the time?
One of my friends was screamed at in front of his daughter by some woman when he held a door open for her as that apparently made him a chauvinistic pig!
Poor blokes can't win anymore!

I think it shows a lack of generosity that is really quite unattractive. If someone has asked you out, they pay in the first instance, you can get the next date if there is one.

I agree that it's polite for the inviter to offer to pay (as with friends etc) but it wouldn't be a black mark for me if a guy suggested splitting the bill 50/50. There's a lot better ways to judge the success of a date than that!!

If he did offer to pay, I would demur, and if he insisted, only accept on condition I paid next time. So if I didn't want another date, I'd insist on splitting.

This is what I think. If they have suggested taking you somewhere posh for your first date , it is inherently their invitation and they pay. If you are out for a first date, and you just go for a drink and a standard meal to get to know eachother, you're not vastly different in circumstances.... Split the bill.

I think this is personal.

There is no particular reason a man should pay but, on the other hand, splitting a bill in two is seriously unromantic and does not herald well for the future.

I guess, in an ideal world, you would both be volunteering to pay the whole bill and the person who did the asking would ultimately pay it.

On the other hand, no one is obliged to like someone and, if you want a man who freely pays there will be plenty out there.

I think it all depends, and it all feeds into my assessment of someone.

I honestly don't remember who paid first with DP and I - but then we'd known each other for a while, out for drinks in groups n stuff, so 'first date' is already a nebulous concept.

But, with other men, ostentatiously paying for the meal is just as bad as meticulously splitting the bill. TBH, my ideal bloke either just pays with shake of the head and 'you get it next time' or "don't worry about it", or accepts my offer to go halves with similarly little fuss. Either is perfectly fine. Making a performance of paying is not.

Unless they've specifically made some fuss about going to some expensive restaurant/activity - then I'd still offer to pay half, but, if I was skint, would be judging the guy for being so inconsiderate if he let me.

It's not about the money - I went out with one guy, who earned about the same as me, we both had houses, we were both comfortable enough, and he had me transfer half the money for an Asda curry on the way home (where we were going to drink my wine). About 6 quid. That level of pointless splitting was completely unattractive to me (perhaps it's fine with others)

YABU - I never got this boy pays for the girl thing, but I never dated men so...
I would say whoever asks pays first, although when I have done the asking and offered to pay the other woman has always insisted on splitting. Drinks and smaller things, turn about. Maybe it’s different if it was for a very specific event or something but as that’s further down the line usually and you know each other better, e.g. I suggested an activity and booked/paid and refused any money towards it so my date insisted that she pay for a couple of drinks after which was fine obvs.

It’s been many years since I have been on the dating scene, but I would expect the man to pay.

If we are in a restaurant and can see a obviously dating couple splitting the bill, it makes me cringe it’s just so embarrassing and awkward.

I realise I may be out of touch!

No, you’re not a feminist

Splitting the bill embarrassing?..I would say a woman expecting a man to pay her bill in 2018 is embarrassing. I think first date definitely split down the middle, second date and from then on take it in turns to pay. I earn my own money, I no more expect a man to pay for me than I expect he to lay his coat over a puddle for me to walk over.

I would always offer, and be pleasantly surprised if they said not to worry and that they would get it. I would always do the same if there was a second date.

I would never expect a man to a pay for me. How degrading.

I was on a dating site for 5 years before I met the one. I met very different type of men, some in better professional positions than others. ALL but one men didn't offer to pay. Ironically, the one who didn't was probably the one with the biggest earning.

It didn't put me off immediately, but did surprise me, more because he just got his card out and just said he would pay his half as if it was obvious rather than saying something that it was ok if we both paid. I always offered to pay my half but never insisted as I found men more offended by it than grateful.

I did go out on another date with the one who went half, and when he did the same on the second date, I suggested I paid all that one and he paid all next time. This actually got him to smile and admit that he was a bit tight with his money because of how he was raised. 3rd date and he paid without issue. That was the last one though as it became clear we were not compatible at other levels.

I do like the fact that my now husband offered to pay totally naturally. We have been together 10 years, and have totally separate finances as we are both very independent, but I do like the fact that he is generous and indeed, even after all this time, when we go out, he will pay 4 times out of 5.

You have got me thinking now OP, going to to have chat with my teenage sons later. It’s 30 years since I dated DH, so well out of touch.

There is no particular reason a man should pay but, on the other hand, splitting a bill in two is seriously unromantic and does not herald well for the future.

What, that a bloke sees a woman as an equal? What a harbinger of doom.

YANBU, so off putting when a man doesn’t.

In an internet date there really is no such thing as "let's go out sometime" and that being one person inviting the other out so should pay. It's a mutual decision.
Can't think I did any meals as first dates. Always drinks where you alternate rounds. Who wants an awkward meal with a stranger!
(Those who say well with friends you just alternate who pays- well you KNOW you friends and know you'll see them again in the future and will treat them next time.you don't know that at all with a stranger off.

What a tight arse! Yes it would put me off too MASSIVELY. I pay my own way, am independent and am certainly no gold digger, if I was in a relationship I'd treat my man and spoil him just like I hope he would for me... but a first date? Come on man, some things should be traditional just wine and dine her and show her she's worth it especially if you've asked her out and picked the place. Sitting there with a calculator? For fucks sake. See ya!

When the (straight) women on that First Dates programme on telly insist on paying half, it always makes them look they’re going to be hard work relationship-wise.

Only because the men turn it into a battle ! I think it's quite revealing when the men don't want to let the ' lady ' pay.

Ideally the conversation should go. "Shall we split it" "yes".

TBH I find it outrageous that so many women simper and let the men pay on "first dates". They don't even have the excuse that the man asked them out. He just pays because he's the man. Ridiculous in 2018!

I would also agree tightness is not attractive. And it's hugely tight to go out for a meal with someone and not even want to pay your share. Never mind spilt it. She didn't even want to pay for herself. That's as tight as it gets. Cringe.

I would expect to split the bill too.

If you would class him as tight for not paying, then why don't you think he will think the same when you don't?

I don't want a man that thought he had to keep me as I'm female and therefore obviously helpless. I like an equal.