To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

Pa1oma Don’t complain then... my partner isn’t like that and he is 42. We each have certain jobs that only we do (we do the others if need be though, say one is ill etc) but that’s more down to preference than anything else. For instance, I prefer to clean the bathroom as I feel I do it better, he makes sure the bins are emptied and bins by the road on collection days. The reason being (although they are quite stereotypical jobs) is that he remembers better than me and gets them up the steps easier and I like cleaning the bathroom (as much as one can). I wouldn’t sit and complain if I didn’t talk to him about feeling overwhelmed with doing more and not getting a break and let him carry on. When I feel things are on top of me I ask for a hand as does he. Our relationship isn’t perfect and nothing is completely equally split down the middle but we each do our fair share and aren’t afraid to speak up if we feel we are taking on too much and need a break etc.

Funnily enough he does more of the childcare and more of the school drop offs and pick ups and I probably cook more of the dinners and put the kids clothes away.

Well then don’t ask for people opinions if you don’t like them!! I’m sorry you’re so sensitive that I dare have an opinion that doesn’t match yours.

Yes it's strange, almost as if a woman was telling another woman what to do.

@LucyEvans26 I don't like or agree with your opinion here but I have no issue with you posting it. Like you have, I will tell you when I disagree with you.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be feminine for a date. I am very feminine.

There is something really quite problematic about associating 'being paid for' as 'being feminine'. Or 'paying for things' as being masculine. It assumes competency and work as being male qualities and they really aren't.

But do you think he's given a second's thought to what I'll be eating this week? No he has not. So this is the difference.

is it the case that he works and you don't? if so, doesn't this make some sense?

Yes it does make some sense marchin. I guess the point I was trying to make (not very well admittedly) was that it's useless to pretend that the practical and emotional experience of having a baby is the same for a man and a woman when clearly it is not. I think glossing over the impact of this for women does us a disservice.

For instance, I had three DC with roughly 2 year gaps between them. I was vomiting with all the pregancies until about 25 weeks. Then I bf them all until about 9 months. So 18 months per child when I was either unable to work or fairly incapacitated - times that by 3 is 4.5 years. Or, put another way, 8 years before they were all in school. Obviously, having a baby is life-changing for both parents, but cleanly DH was not impacted physically or emotionally in the same way as me. So his reaction was to focus on the financial providing role in these years. The knock on effect of this, of course, was that by the time I was able to return to work, his earnings so far outstripped mine that the opportunity cost of me returning to work and the impact on home life versus the extra income was simply not worth it.

So women have different choices to make to men because of biological factors and if you don't realise that before you have children, it will become very apparent once they arrive!

Pa1oma All of that is obvious though and none of it is your partners fault. You could have had larger gaps between children and worked, or use a daycare service or not have as many kids. You had choices but aren’t blaming your partner for them? Did he force you to have the kids?

No I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying this is how it invariably pans out. It is what it is, but women face different choices to men.

Pa1oma Obviously we do. What’s the issue with it? You want kids? They have to be made somewhere unless you adopt so it doesn’t affect recovery and feeding etc Then you can work and not sacrifice as much because your husband can stay off and look after the kids. I’m not sure I’m seeing the problem with you making choices and not actually making it known you want his input more.

Quack - sorry I think you misunderstand me. My comments about DH's life and how it differs to mine were not intended as a moan or criticism of him, more a simple statement of fact. As I said, it is what it is.

I made that point because many on this thread have said it's outrageous than men should still be in any way expected to pay for dates, there is no place for "gender roles" in 2018, etc, etc. I was trying to make the point that my life experience does not bear this out. Biological factors still influence the practical ways in which we, and many other families, live our lives and there are different decisions to be made for men and women.

I understood you perfectly. You won’t ask him to do more because you have decided that by his 40s he won’t change. That’s on you, not him. He kept up his hobbies etc because you made it clear that was an ok thing to do. You’ve sacrificed your enjoyment of life because of stereotypes that you helped enforce. No point bringing it up if you don’t plan on changing things.

@Pa1oma - articulately put.

I'm thinking of showing your post to gf who is deciding whether to have children; she thinks it'll be perfect equality & both her and DH carrying on as normal straight after the birth. Again, my experience just does not in any way resemble this.

The fact is that if you want BF and be a baby-led mother, your career is generally fucked. I was not ready to go back to work at 12 months; emotionally I was a wreck & having had no support for my ex, was utterly shattered. I now earn approx 1/3 of my pre child salary. And have relatively little prospect of picking back up my previous earnings.

This thread has deviated, but I agree that for the vast majority of women (maybe mothers particularly) the idea of equality is an absolute ducking joke.

Of course having a baby won’t be equal, you’ve just pushed a baby out of the birth canal. You need to recover and if you choose to breastfeed then you must understand what that means, surely? If it’s too much then express or use formula. Why people think that has to be equal is beyond me. I did all the feeding and recovery and my partner did the housework and dinners and nappies etc. In fairness neither of us worked so we had more time for that, if your partner works then of course you have to do little bits around the house but mostly just let it slide. Being a mum who ha skust given birth is hard work, I wouldn’t cry about equality over it because men cannot grow the babies, give birth or feed from their chest. That isn’t their fault.

@QuackPorridgeBacon - I'm not crying about equality, but ditto I don't expect ppl to have a go at others when there are things they think men need to step up and do without expecting their wives to do it all.

Sadly, based on being burnt by past experience, I now feel I have to have it all & do it all on my own.

I think women are royally screwed these days on the whole!

No I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying this is how it invariably pans out. It is what it is, but women face different choices to men.

but some of it is down to you not working and he working. it makes sense that the one at home does most of the housework, no?

DP and I both work full time, and we certainly don't split each job 50/50. One of us does more childcare, the other more toilet cleaning and laundry. We play to our strengths.

But also, 40 is not too old to change (I am older than that!). the trouble is is that if you want less housework, you might get resistance if he works full time and you don't.

and yes having babies is different for men and women.

Quack- nobody is "crying" about anything. The comments were made with reference to points made throughout the thread - that in 2018 gender roles do not / should not exist and are irrelevant.

I'm essentially agreeing with you. Please read my comments in light of the whole thread.

Equality is a matter of perspective. So, as I said earlier, my DH has gone off for the week climbing. I would find it difficult to extricate myself from the family for that length of time because I'm "default parent". Like namechange, nannies or nursery options were never for us. On the other hand, I do have between the hours of 8.30am- 3pm everyday to make of what I will. So a different kind of freedom. When DH travels with work he never has to factor in child arrangements. Like this week, DD has exams, but DH knows that I'll have the revision support under control, etc. On the other hand, I never have to worry about the mortgage, bills, or finances in general. So things balance out overall and we take different pressures off each other. Some may think it's too gendered, but this is how it panned out for us because of biology, personality and practicality. That's all really.

I'd suggest you go for a trip too, then sometime. It'll probably be good for you, for him and the kids. They'll get to know their dad. It's not outrageous for you to have a trip away as well.

Yes I've been thinking that myself, marchin.