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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think he should pay on first date???

845 replies

namechangerforthis123 · 14/05/2018 23:31

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

OP posts:
shinycat · 17/05/2018 11:53

@pangalaticgargleblaster

Does that apply to women as well? If she does not even offer to open her purse can I assume she is an entitled freeloading gold digging parasite?

No. It would not apply to a woman not paying for her share on a first date in most cases. A woman not paying on a first date (that a man has asked her on,) is more than likely not going to be a 'stingy money-grabbing parasite.' (Very few women are, and the very few who ARE, will go for someone much richer than you, with a lot more offer them than you.)

However, despite the fact that most women not paying on a first date will NOT be a stingy money grabbing parasite, most men who insist the woman pays for what she has consumed, IS a lot more likely to be stingy, tight-fisted, and unsupportive in the future (if she was daft enough to stay with him.) And I say this from my own experience way back in the past, and that of many women I know (and have known....)

You can twist things all you like, in your attempt to make out any woman letting a man pay for her (on a first date,) is a stingy, money-grabbing, tight-fisted, bitch who will fleece the man for everything she can get. But the fact is, that in the MAJORITY of cases, most women letting a man pay on a first date will not be this kind of person. And as I said, most men making her pay her share, after asking HER out, will most likely always be a penny-pinching, tight-fisted, mean git.

I have seen it happen so many times, to myself in the past, and to many women I know. As I said, I know half a dozen couples RIGHT NOW where the woman earns much less than her man (or is a SAHM,) who is kept down by her man (financially) and has to beg for food shopping, money for school trips and uniforms for the kids, and for gifts for their birthdays etc.

He often makes sure he has enough for his frivolous hobbies and nights out with mates, and throws her and the kids the crumbs he has left. And these men started out being mean and stingy, making her buy her own drinks in the pub, pay her way into the club, pay her share when they went put for meals, and pay her own taxi home. He was never ever ever generous. The women should have seen it in the first place really, but it's too late now; they are stuck with a tight-fisted git who always puts himself first. In addition to these half a dozen women, I have known many others like that in the past too.

It is perfectly normal and nice and acceptable to 'treat' a woman on your first date, and spoil her a little, and treat her like a lady. Why WOULDN'T you, if you like her, you fancy her, and you are interested in seeing her again? As many posters have said, it’s part of the courtship ritual, and there is nothing wrong with it. And he will get the same good treatment back in due course, and lots of it!

A few people have said 'why doesn't SHE do that for HIM?' Well I say don't be so fucking pedantic. It's perfectly natural and acceptable for a woman to be treated like a princess by a man, and if you think that's cheesy and sexist and daft, then you fucking go for it, just flame me for it; I don't give a hairy bollock. The fact is that it is the nice thing to do; for a man to treat a woman well, and show her he likes her and cares about her - especially on that first date. Some people are saying stuff like 'equal rights, independence, and feminism,’ and so on, and I am all for women being given the same chances and being treated equally, but with stuff like first dates, women SHOULD be treated like they are special by the man.

I mean if we are going to be all equal, maybe she should drink pints, sit with her legs wide open, and sit there farting, and he can sit on her face, fart in her mouth and give her wedgie. Then they can go on a sing-song in the high street, singing 'get yet tits out for the lads! Get your tits out for the lads!' at all the women on the street!

As for men who meet lots of women off internet sites, well as has been said above, just go for a coffee with each one, not a meal that's going to cost 50 quid or more each time for the 2 of you! If you are doing that, (meeting women off the internet and going to an expensive restaurant, and paying for her and losing lots of money,) you only have yourself to blame really!

But if it is a woman you really like and have been trying to get a date with for a while, and you take her somewhere nice and expect her to pay for herself - then don't be surprised if she doesn't want a second date, and you end up with a reputation for being a stingy cunt. Many women are happy to share costs and help out financially with anything, but no woman likes - or wants - a stingy cunt. And a man making a woman pay for herself on a first date, almost certainly IS one.

And as some posters have said, many women WILL offer to pay, but it is a very good sign if a man says 'no no no, put your purse away...' Also, even though a number of posters have answered this question many times on this thread, yes most women (including me) WILL insist on paying our share if we never want to see the man again.

And a woman is not more 'fiercely independent' than other women, just because she doesn't let the man pay. That's just in her head.

As a few posters have said, I think there are a small handful of men on here who have had some bad experiences, because they really do seem to have a massive chip on their shoulder! And yeah a couple of them do seem a bit angry and a bit like they don't like women much actually.......

Agree very much with @Goldilocks3bears posts (especially post 5 on the previous page (posted at 10.36am today (17/05/18.) And I also agree with @Pa1oma's post at 10.50am.) Well said!

@Furano stop twisting Pa1oma's words. There's a lot of that been happening on this thread! That - and gaslighting! Just because someone is losing the argument, they make stuff up!

@chestylarue52

Its very sweet to hear stories of how people got together with their partners, particularly those who have been together a long time, I liked the story about the man who spent a third of his wage on his date.

That was me! Smile And as I said, I knew he was 'the one' from that moment. We had known each other for a few weeks. We met at a club and I had seen him 3 or 4 times, and he plucked up the courage to ask me out, and he couldn't do enough for me!

His mom said (some months later,) that he was so nervous and excited, when I had said 'yes' to a date, that he spent 2 hours cleaning the car!

And he said he knew I was the one, when I spent £30 (£70 in today's money) on a birthday gift for him, less than a month after our first date. Because he knew I was generous and thoughtful too - just like he was. Smile

chestylarue52 · 17/05/2018 12:00

I just don't think its always that good a sign if the man says 'no no let me pay', and insists. I like men to listen to what I want and what I'm saying, and, understands what 'no' means. If I want to pay, or go halves, I'd like them to respect that.

And yes, I do think that makes me more 'fiercely independent' than someone who is flattered that a man forces her to be paid for.

I'm happy to disagree though.

Baubletrouble43 · 17/05/2018 12:13

I drink pints as does my partner. Neither of us fart ostentatiously ( subtly maybe) and he never runs down the street singing get your tits out. I dont understand your equality analogy at all.

Baubletrouble43 · 17/05/2018 12:13

Infact I'll go one further and say you're talking bollocks. Big hairy ones.

Trinity66 · 17/05/2018 12:18

And a woman is not more 'fiercely independent' than other women, just because she doesn't let the man pay. That's just in her head.

I'll reply to this because I assume it was directed at me, considering those were my words?

If you read my post properly i did say that even though I consider myself to be fiercely independent, I understood because of social etiquette, men may feel like they had to pay on a first date as a matter of pride and so I did let my DH pay on our first date.

Are you suggesting that after the first date a man should just carrying on paying for everything on every date? If so then I'd be warning my son off that kind of woman...........

AhhhhThatsBass · 17/05/2018 12:32

It would be a turn off for me too. From memory, no first date I ever went on, oh no there was one and only one, the first date was always paid for by the man. I would always offer to pay, he always insisted and if went on to a bar afterwards, I'd always insist on getting the drinks.
I find chivalrous behaviour very attractive.

chestylarue52 · 17/05/2018 12:44

@shinycat I find your language interesting. That a man who does not pay for a woman on a date is 'making her' pay her half. If we go somewhere chargeable - food, drink, cinema, with any other adult and they don't pay for us, are they 'making us' pay for ourselves? Or do we just accept that grown ups pay our own way in life. 'He made me pay' is such strange language to use in any context.

ethelfleda · 17/05/2018 13:04

Haven't had a first date in well over a decade (and don't ever plan on having one again Smile)

But I honestly wouldn't care either way. I'd be prepared to pay my half and would with no issue if the guy suggested it. I would also accept him paying, if that's what he wanted to do. When all said and done, all I would care about is if we had a good time or not and if we wanted to see each other again. I think having an issue with the bill either way kills the romance more than the guy calculating who owes what.

ethelfleda · 17/05/2018 13:05

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namechangerforthis123 · 17/05/2018 13:18

@chestylarue52 - are you male?

OP posts:
shinysinkredemption · 17/05/2018 13:32

shinycat I'm relieved you live in the real world, as do I.

I find as these MN threads progress, the people that stick with it tend to be at the more extreme ends of the spectrum and usually in opposition to the original poster.

hmmmm01 · 17/05/2018 13:41

First date... if he asked you, he pays.
If this were me that’s what I’d expect. On the second date, I’d expect to pay.

siwel123 · 17/05/2018 13:41

I live in the real world.

Storm4star · 17/05/2018 13:47

I think shinycat has said a lot of things, very well. I agree completely.

I will always offer to pay my share on a date, but if the man accepts me paying my share he won’t get a second date. For all the reasons shinycat said.

This then frees up that man to meet the women who insist on “paying their way” and I am free to meet a gentleman. I believe some still do exist 🤔

Goldilocks3Bears · 17/05/2018 13:52

@chestylarue52 I only split one bill in all the one I was first time dating and that was so I could get home quickly but wanted to say that you can still have a long term relationship that doesn’t involve moving in and getting married. It’s actually kind of nice Halo. I have my own job, home, friends, etc and we split fuck all.
He treats me to what he wants to treat me to and I do the same. There is no measuring and comparing. He pays when we go out because he wants to. So I let him. This does not give him any upper hand and he knows I am financially and emotionally capable to walk away and pay for my own dinners. Our dates are not about that so it really does not matter. If money is that important, may I suggest coffee or free dates to those first daters who take such exception to their meal being bought for them or having to pay for their meal....

I’m a little puzzled by the vehemence to make sure that everything is totally even - that doesn’t sound like a lot of fun tbh on a first date and some of you sound like it would turn into a downright awkward moment, literally fighting over the bill as a matter of principle.

And how do you compare apples and pears in long term relationships? The biggest example being earning spouses and stay at home spouses. Surely it’s supposed to be a partnership?

So, question for the equalitists: do you keep a log book? A sex log to make sure you take even turns?

Booooooring.

chestylarue52 · 17/05/2018 13:59

No, I'm female,

I'm not an 'equalist' Did you miss the part when I said I enjoy paying for a date? If I like someone, yes, even on a first date, I will offer to pay the whole tab. Sometimes I pay, sometimes they pay, sometimes we split, I just don't see why it matters. Its not a measure of a person. There are much better ways to measure a man...how did he talk to the waitress, did he get too drunk, do I like his laugh, etc etc ad infinitum.

siwel123 · 17/05/2018 14:05

No we don't Hmm.
All I'm saying is I think it is unfair a man is expected to pay for everyone but a women is allowed to get a free meal.

However I realise other people are happy to be paid for and some guys ate happy to pay fully on a 1st date and it doesn't really effect me so I say do what makes you happy as long as the toehr person is also happy Smile

Trinity66 · 17/05/2018 14:23

No, I'm female,

I'm not an 'equalist' Did you miss the part when I said I enjoy paying for a date? If I like someone, yes, even on a first date, I will offer to pay the whole tab. Sometimes I pay, sometimes they pay, sometimes we split, I just don't see why it matters. Its not a measure of a person. There are much better ways to measure a man...how did he talk to the waitress, did he get too drunk, do I like his laugh, etc etc ad infinitum.

Well said

GinUnicorn · 17/05/2018 14:54

Wow this thread shocks me.

I tend to take turns as it is nice to treat each other. I'd always offer to split on a first date whether I liked them or not. Genuinely would be happy to split. If he wanted to pay I'd get the next one or get drinks.

To me a good date is about if he is hood company, funny, witty intelligent. I couldn't give a stuff about the size of his wallet.

I earned considerably more than my dp when we met now I'm on maternity and he's caught me up. We have always been partners and equal. He's not more important than me because he earns more now and I think our dating history helped that.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 17/05/2018 14:56

I assure you that the vast majority of women are not in it for a free dinner. It's the substance of a man, not his wallet!

I agree, the vast majority of women are not 'in it for a free meal', they want to meet (I assume) a compatible partner. But it would seem from this thread that for plenty of women the substance of a man on a first date, is in part measured and dependant on him providing said free meal!

For what it is worth, my dating days always involved in me picking up the tab, I did so because that was how I had been conditioned, and to put it bluntly if you wanted to date women, you were expected to pay for it. I thought it was a bit unfair at the time but those were the rules of the game.

I then tried internet dating (during its early days) and I noticed the rules began to change a bit where splitting bills was more common place. I found there were still plenty of women online though, who despite making initial contact with me would go on to suggest upmarket venues for a first date and expect me to pay for it. I soon learned early on that drinks or coffee were the way forward for first dates with maybe dinner being a third date option. If you were proactive online it was not uncommon to have two or three dates a week, that would soon get pretty expensive if you had to pay for everything.

By the time I was in my early 30s my career had developed to the point where I was actually on decent money, I could have been a flash harry and wowed dates with trips to Michelin starred restaurants or other swish venues, I could have afforded it. However, clichéd as it sounds, I wanted my future girlfriend / wife to like me for who I was, not for any peacock displays of me 'treating' her. I met my wife via match.com, our first date was a riverside pub where we met for drinks, she actually got the first round in, not because I was 'tight' but by dint of her marching up to the bar and asking what I wanted. I got the next round and set up a tab, a few hours later after getting on like a house on fire we ordered some food, and a few hours after that the bill came and we both without blinking slapped our cards down without any awkward 'fake reaches', her running off to the bathroom or either of us having a tug of war over who paid. We were both financially independent professionals with our own homes and cars and were just happy to have met a potential soulmate, neither of us gave a fuck about the bill or made stupid future character projections or assumed 'red flags' over who paid what. I organised the next date and paid for dinner, she did likewise on the third date, twelve years later we are still going strong.

I guess if she followed the lead of some on here she would have binned me after date one because I did not throw myself on the bill like a soldier diving on a grenade.

Goldilocks3Bears · 17/05/2018 15:03

@chestylarue52 - the 'equalist' label was for other posters who are disgusted and outraged, not you. You sound like you;ve got your head screwed on fine.

Except for the racist, xenophobic, entitled, misogynistic, humourless, and boring UKIP voter I accidentally ended up on a date with in the olden days..... I actually struggle to think of a single man I have dated who has NOT paid for the first date and I have ALWAYS offered to split and ALWAYS been declined. The main lesson in this is not that I'm a princess but that I'm too friggin polite and should have turned and left when he showed up ten years older than his pictures ...

RoadToRivendell · 17/05/2018 15:10

I guess if she followed the lead of some on here she would have binned me after date one because I did not throw myself on the bill like a soldier diving on a grenade.

Not at all.

I think there's a major distinction to be made between a first date established IRL and online dating. Which is why I suggest this is possibly generational.

I'd be very quick to get my card down if I met some random fellow off Tinder etc.

Shampaincharly · 17/05/2018 18:37

Setting up several online first dates in one week is a different scenario from what the OP .

OliviaStabler · 17/05/2018 19:01

I guess if she followed the lead of some on here she would have binned me after date one because I did not throw myself on the bill like a soldier diving on a grenade.

@PanGalaticGargleBlaster Surely the point is that you did not pick up the bill, and your date was fine with that. Showing compatibility in outlook.

For some other women, the fact you did not pay the bill or at least offer to pay the bill would have been a huge turn off. You would not have liked that expectation to pay but it shows that you would have been incompatible with that person.

HelenaDove · 17/05/2018 20:09

My first date with DH was a kiss at Gosfield Lake in April 1992.

We met at a day centre for disabled people where we both worked back then. He was 42 I was almost 19.

We had a weekend away which he booked + paid for in a chalet in Walton on the Naze.

He wasnt in great health when we met and in the early 2000s i was the main breadwinner. He was the part timer I the full timer.

Fine by me. I chose/fell for a man who wasnt/isnt in great health. He had a massive heart attack in 2006(he did actually die but was shocked back to life) ...........he has ischemic heart disease + emphysema

He is now 68 im almost 45.

He is retired and i am now his full time carer. Apart from the obvious this has included fighting for his rights when the HA tried to discriminate against him due to his disability.

I was the main breadwinner and i also sacrificed a sex life.

But fuck me (or not as the case may be) i would rather do all this again and then some than risk ending up on a date with some of the men who post on this site or my ex who ive mentioned upthread or any of the dickheads some of my friends are with.

I would never ever do OLD Reading about it on here scares the fucking shit out of me.

Oh and a good point..................DH has never gaslighted me either.............despite his memory problems caused by being dead for a very short while.

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