To not understand why some parents refuse to pay proper maintenance?

[crunchymint]

Yes I know, its because they are arseholes. I know that. But I still don't emotionally understand how someone cares so little about their own children that they refuse to pay maintenance, or pay as little as they can get away with. What this really means is you don't care if your child has everything they need.

It's a shame that Frequency has not come back to enlighten me on how precisely she would continue contact in my dh's circumstances. Maybe I will never know.
I do know however that telling the other side of the story never goes down well on child support threads on MN.
Yes, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence on here alone to illustrate that NRPs can be complete arses, but I haven't seen one single post where anyone questions a RP's claims. Yet every time I or anyone else tell a NRP anecdote, we are scoffed at and virtually called liars.
If I was to relate how the then CSA refused to accept our bank statement showing a payment into the NRP's account as proof of payment, no-one would believe me, would they? Nor would they accept our copy of the NRP's statement showing the money received, as she did not send it herself. Of course, she had 'lost' her copy, so the CSA chose to work on the assumption that the RP was no lying when she said my DH was not paying, and added arrears to the account every month.
But no-one wants to hear about that.

Although I acknowledge alienation does happen, what I don't understand is how? If the parent being alienated always had a good relationship with the children how is it the other parent can damage this with only words? Does it only happen with very young children

Well when one parent spends a considerable part of the week with a child and the other parent gets the weekend. It's easy.

Your parent tells you your other parent has moved on. Doesn't love you. Shows you pictures of the "New family" (which in my case was balls she showed her daughter a pic of me with my brother not my child who "daddy is looking after instead of you")

They do this at any given opportunity.

Dps ex did all this, continually, and the contact got less and less. She would tell her daughter yo ask things, say things to get a reaction. She told her that dp was making mummy sell her home and they would be poor and daddy didn't care. She told her that we'd have a baby and she'd get forgot about. She believed it all regardless of reassurance from us and she said some really fucking horrible things that I can guarantee didn't come come out of an 11yo mind. She doesn't speak to us now but will send dp the odd abusive text about how awful we are etc. She is 16 now and a bitter twisted mini version of her mother.

Weird thing was, She never did this to the youngest. But then she's admitted that she doesn't like him as much because he reminds her of dp whereas daughter reminds her or her.

I'll add to your list if I may, Flaming?
She tells the boys that daddy doesn't care about them but only wants to see them to get back at her
She tells them that daddy used to hit her and she is concerned he will hit them.
She tells them to try not to worry, she will do her best to protect them from daddy.
She tells them that daddy is not paying enough money Di she will have to stop all treats.
She tells them that daddy is forcing her to go to court again, even though she is doing her best to protect them.
She makes sure that they are in hearing distance when speaking to DH so they can comfort her when she starts to cry
She suggests it might be a good idea for the children to let their father know how much they hate him. She will write the letter if they tell her what they want to say.
She is surprised when daddy sends birthday gifts because he does not give her enough money to buy food. She suggests they return the gifts and tell daddy why.
Need I go on?

Keep - it used to be CSA, but govt are in the process of closing all the CSA cases, might even be closed by now, and moving over to the new govt agency, the CMS.

CMS don’t normally start out with a deduction of earnings order. They’ll ask you to go on a direct pay unless there are mitigating circumstances, like domestic violence or something like that.

Don’t expect anything to happen quickly, it doesn’t ever.

If the paying parent misses a payment you can contact CMS. They contact the ex. They can send out letters and the paying parent has weeks to get back to them.

You can ask for a deduction of earnings, but the CMS will give the paying parent loads of opportunities and time to make a payment.

Takes about 5 months to go from non payment to a deduction of earnings.

And I have no idea what would show up on a wage slip. It’s a deduction of earnings order, maybe that.

Doh! I have just seen your post above mine, Frequency! I must have taken for ever to write my post.
I am afraid my DH asked several times that his ex be punished, but it was the judges decision, not his. Back then, judges would not punish mothers it was thought it would affect the children too much, so his ex basically had carte blanche to do what she wanted within real risk of sanctions.

Cathf - I believe your story and. Ertaiyndont believe RPs are all angels. Human relationships are complicated and people can be shitty. I just don't think it's a reason not to pay maintenance for your own children.

In fairness, my reply was a long time coming, Cath. I'm studying full time, along with raising two kids, working out of the home part time and working from home as much I can squeeze it in. I don't get chance to come on MN every day so didn't read your post until earlier today. I should be finishing off course work atm and then working from home but I'm a bit lazy sometimes

Flaming and Cath, it's hard to imagine any parent saying such cruel things to their own children. Even my ex-H does not stoop so low as to tell his own kids their mother doesn't love them.

Cath, could he not go back to court? AFAIK, you can represent yourself if you can't afford legal representation and aren't entitled to legal aid.

frequency it's even harder to see and to pick up the pieces.

The eldest is even a total shit to her brother now because he has chosen to live with us.

If his ex's goal was to entirely fuck up the kids and probably ensure that they never have another healthy fictional relationship in their life she's achieved it.

Ripley thank you, that makes it a lot clearer, they're basically there to allow two parties to interact without actual interaction, and in the back ground for if problems arise I take it. I didn't really want to go down CMS route because it'll cause bad feeling in an already factious situation, I want to involve them even less now I know this information!

Its so sad. Why are people so bloody nasty?

"Although I acknowledge alienation does happen, what I don't understand is how? If the parent being alienated always had a good relationship with the children how is it the other parent can damage this with only words? Does it only happen with very young children?"

Sorry but that is a very offensive thing to ask. A google it there's tons on it B have you never heard of verbal/emotional abuse? gaslighting? Words are VERY effective as a means of psychological torture.

But I still agree with

"I just don't think it's a reason not to pay maintenance for your own children."

CMS is a BIT better than csa ime, but neither work fast or stringently enough for my liking.

Graphista, I can live with not accepting alienation exists or is possible. What REALLY annoys me is when pps make comments about how they would not stand for it, or criticise NRPs such as my husband for 'giving up on his children'. In our case, 'giving up' was the only sensible course of action, as by the time he was at the end of the road, the children were absolutely terrified of humans clung to their mother like limpets. CAFCAS judged that the alienation had gone too far at that point and recorded it in their second report (requested incidentally by his ex because she didn't like the first one).
The mother, on the other hand, realised that the courts were not going to do anything apart from rap her on the knuckles, so was gearing up for more fighting, this time with legal aid in their 8-year-old son's name.
I accept ours is a very extreme case, but please, do not castigate my DH for 'abandoning' his sons.

That should read Him, not humans, obviously
Although by that point, I think they were terrified of any humans apart from their mother!

@cathf My Dad was once your DH. Me and my siblings are adults now. Not one of us speaks to our mother and we are all very close to our Dad, who to me is an absolute fucking hero and I do not blame him one bit for losing the will to live with the court system when I was 10. (Sporadic contact from 6-10, none from 10-15 when I went searching because the things I remembered did not tally with that Mother was telling me.)

Have hope