To not understand why some parents refuse to pay proper maintenance?

[crunchymint]

Yes I know, its because they are arseholes. I know that. But I still don't emotionally understand how someone cares so little about their own children that they refuse to pay maintenance, or pay as little as they can get away with. What this really means is you don't care if your child has everything they need.

My ex declares to everyone that he doesn’t pay maintainence because he buys everything our DD needs when she’s with him EOW. That’s fair in his eyes and claims I would just spend the money on myself. Never been a selfish mother and I have no idea why he would think this.
But in reality she walks around with shoes/clothes too small whilst being bombarded with sweets & magazines and gifts.
I send stuff with her that I’ve bought so she doesn’t have to endure small shoes/clothes and it doesn’t come back. Go figure.
He works cash in hand jobs so he doesn’t declare his tax and doesn’t sign on so CMS cannot get any money from him despite a liability order. His partner claims as a single parent so his son is covered bare minimum but gets the added bonus of daddy’s cash as he lives with him.
Although it still pisses me off time to time when I have to buy new school shoes even though she had new ones in January or she decides she wants a new lunchbox. But I rest knowing that she will know in the future that I provide for her. Not her dad

My wonderful ex not only ran off to live with my best friend but he also refused to acknowledge his daughters counselling sessions for her self harming and he only pays minimum maintaince as he "can only get to see her a few hours once a week"

I have had a battle with ex-h over maintenance since the day he left for OW. It has now reduced by two thirds. He blackmailed me so much I ended up going to the CMS. So, now he's started a business with OW and takes a pittance in salary thus avoiding tax and having to pay subsistence level maintenance only. He has an epic lifestyle though and access to their "joint" income. She happily supports this behaviour despite being a mother herself. I only realised how his mindset was when he sent me an email by mistake, it was meant for somebody else, basically saying he's under-declaring because he was not going to pay for my "wine and fags lifestyle". Aside from the fact I don't smoke, I am a carer on benefits because of OUR child. He really is an absolute c**t. I am dealing with it, but I shouldn't have to. He is a vile excuse of a human being and our son deserves so much better than being financially abused by his own "father".

Well I used to know a mother who walked out from her family in search of q spiritual path. Her husband remarried &;she used to complain about his wife's standards of mothering. AND didnt contribute financially
either. Always assumed ahe was deranged in some way. Feel much the same about the blokes who dont contribute. Deranged

My ex only pays what he can afford less than he should. He sees them eow, and rents a 5 bedroom house, all on his own, and competes in motorsports. No wonder he can’t afford to pay the required amount

My ex thinks he's a prince who provides well for our DS, and I do believe he genuinely loves him. But he doles out little bits of money, and only when I beg for it, and yet is outraged at the idea that I am the main breadwinner as far as our son goes (I am, by miles, even though I earn a fraction of what my ex does). I am, of course, also the sole caregiver.

My ex once emailed me saying “the money I pay is for Jack, not a salary for you”!!!

Nobody is excusing crap parenting or behaviour of some rps. I just don't understand the warped reasoning that this excuses crap, irresponsible parenting from the nrp.

And bollocks to all the excuses about not being able to afford to pay. In nearly 15yrs of lone parenting I've lived on an income that has ranged between below the breadline to national average. And at every single point I would have been a lot better off if my contribution to dd had simply been the csa minimum, or in the early days if I'd been in receipt of benefits based on a single person rather than with a child. And thats before even considering the extra earning potential if I didn't have sole responsibility.

What really gets me is the hypocrisy. A sahp struggling with day to day demands would have people falling over themselves to suggest their dp does more, and agreeing it is oh so hard. But a lone parent who has to do everything, with less money to make life easier is a lazy scrounger if they can't find a job that fits into standard childcare hours. Or God forbid a lone parent with more difficult circumstances ( their own health, dc harder work following a break up etc) might actually struggle to work ft and do everything at home and they are condemned as the scum of the earth.

As for the benefits system in general, benefits have funded a sahp through tax credits for couples, not for lone parents who if anything could be argued to need one more.

stereotyped misogyny, eh

At what point did I mention whether the rp was a woman or a man?

I'm not saying women don't work. I'm saying they do and a lot will get benefits on top. I also know the cap is a lot more than min wage for one person because I actually got them myself when dp worked full time and me part time both on more than min wage.

So your belief is that emotionally abused children will fare better if they're impoverished, too? And that knowing that the NRP really, truly and provably dgaf because they'd rather spend their children's money on themselves is somehow justified if the RP is an asshole, too

I can't even work out whether this is serious? Please tell where i said if the child is emotionally abused by the RP that the NRP shouldn't pay? Oh yes.. I didn't.

I just said often nothing is done about parental alienation and emotional abuse by the RP. If you want NRPS to be pulled up on being shit or neglectful if you want to call it that (And they should be) then you have to pull up RP's on being shit too.

Maybe try reading the actual post before you jump on it and say I'm devoid of logic

I have often wondered the same thing. Funny how the ex who never paid a penny in maintenance expects to walk daughter down the aisle and ‘give her away’ as if she’s his property when he has not bothered to stay in contact for years.

I don’t receive maintenance from my ex and I don’t bother chasing it. He’s a waste of perfectly good oxygen and has gone on to have 2 more children with 2 more unsuspecting poor buggers who obviously also fell for the ‘woe is me’ act he has perfected. I’m proud that I have brought ds up by myself and personally I wouldn’t want his money if he offered it now, 14 years later. My son had gone without at times but he has also learned that you have to work for your money and not to be reliant on anyone else. I worked hard to get to where I am now, relatively well paid job, own house and car (not on finance), a holiday for my ds and I each year, etc, etc. My ds has seen the graft that’s gone in and has often said he appreciates all that we have and I’m thankful he has the attitude he does. He sees his father about twice a month but his relationship is nowhere near as close and that’s his fathers doing as I have been careful not to bad mouth him and have encouraged contact between them as I don’t want my ds to feel he missed out. It’s been hard at times to smile through gritted teeth and say ‘oh yes Dad is a wonderful person’ but I don’t want my son carrying my baggage. I do wish the csa system was different and I despise men that don’t pay or take responsibility for their children, but I believe woman can do it alone, men put us down enough and I’m too stubborn to succumb to the pressures my ex has put on me over the years for a few measly quid.

I know of one woman who went into a relationship with a chap who already had a daughter he barely saw. 2 years on she's on her own with her little one and he wriggles out of paying her or seeing their child. On the flip side I also know of a woman who walked out on her kids to be with another man. She never paid a penny towards their keep, then she had another child and they know nothing of the other kids. There's selfishness on both sides unfortunately. My OH will 'threaten' that he'll cut our little one out his life/tell them what kind of person I am etc when he's gone off in a rage. At the end of the day nobody really knows what someone is truly like until you live with them and have known them for a few years.

Oh yes, I have one of those. Have been separated for 6 years now. He refuses to pay, works cash in hand, or used to anyway- the CSA closed our case a couple of years ago.

When we sold our house a year after we'd split up and he'd moved out (I paid full mortgage) I gave him half the equity (£20k). He promised to pay maintenance as he hadn't up until that point. He didn't.

I just said often nothing is done about parental alienation and emotional abuse by the RP. If you want NRPS to be pulled up on being shit or neglectful if you want to call it that (And they should be) then you have to pull up RP's on being shit too.

Sure. But people who don't pay, and it's a clearcut situation. Allegations of alienation, and it's anything but. Some children will be coached, and that's a heartbreaking form of abuse. Some kids won't want to see the NRP because they're an asshole. And how do CAFCASS know for sure which is which?

The presumption is very much that contact is in the interests of the child, but the miserable reality is that there is very, very little you can do to intervene if a RP does this, without harming the child. You can't fine. You can't imprison. You can't do anything except flip primary residence, which isn't even what the NRP necessarily wants, and will also harm the child, especially when they have been coached to hate and mistrust that parent (never mind the horrible risk that they haven't been, or even that they have, but with reason). It's a hellish mess of a situation, because usually both sides are to blame when things get that bad. Clearcut cases of one baddie are rarer.

When someone doesn't pay, it's very, very clear who is at fault. So it's a false comparison. Absolutely false. Not to mention that NRP can also engage in alienation and emotional abuse.

The money is, and should be, a completely separate issue. So yes, your points are devoid of logic. The money is the child's. Theirs. Not the NRP or the NP's to give or refuse.

My own father hardly payed a penny in maintenance and stopped completely after re-marrying when I was age 5. He broke my heart as a child when he stopped seeing me regularly as he had “other priorities”. I was shy of him by age 8 because he only saw me once every 3-6 months. Before re-marrying he saw me every weekend and I absolutely adored him. I remember when the visits were cancelled last minute after I’d sit for an hour or two by the kitchen window waiting for him to pick me up when he was late, he often didn’t turn up at all. I’d cry for hours after. Words can’t describe how hurtful it is to have been rejected by a well- educated, well-off and seemingly clever man who could probably understand what it was doing to me. I was planned and my mum divorced him because of his drinking.

Apparently him and his wife were considering having children (I’m his only child). Now they have a dog that is far more pampered and gets taken to training classes miles away. He wanted to know when he could see me over Christmas, I suggested Boxing Day. He said no, that’s a “family day” and a “special day for ‘wife’ and George” (the dog).

What can I say, people are ignorant to their own cruelty. I honestly don’t believe he understood that what he said was laughably wrong.

Sure. But people who don't pay, and it's a clearcut situation. Allegations of alienation, and it's anything but. Some children will be coached, and that's a heartbreaking form of abuse. Some kids won't want to see the NRP because they're an asshole. And how do CAFCASS know for sure which is which?

Pretty sure you'd be able to tell by talking to someone whether they are a manipulative arsehole or not.

'm not saying women don't work. I'm saying they do and a lot will get benefits on top. I also know the cap is a lot more than min wage for one person because I actually got them myself when dp worked full time and me part time both on more than min wage.

Just 😂😂😂

You have no idea.

How don't I have an idea? And why is it funny?

"Pretty sure you'd be able to tell by talking to someone whether they are a manipulative arsehole or not."

Ha! Manipulative arseholes can manipulate anyone! My ex did a good job of this but this also wasn't helped by our cafcas officer being clearly biased toward nrp's. I made a complaint about her actions (spending several hours with my ex and only 10 mins with me being only one element) and report and it was upheld and another report done - which funnily enough found him to be a manipulative arsehole! Cafcas officers are only human.

Exactly my ex could sell beer to a pub landlord

He is a convicted drug deller
Has form from grooming young boys to get them to drug run for him he is a serial hobosexul - somone who romances women in order to live at their home usually single mothers with kids 😕he’s a fecking chump

But he’s also a charmer managed to hide my pregnancy from his mum he told dear mum that somone had got be pregnant and run off and as us being such close friends he couldn’t see me like that so had taken on the role

No wonder why she thought o was a demanding cow she didn’t find out we weren’t friends and yes the baby was his and he wasn’t some fudgeing savour when I was 8 months gone and he was seeing my best friend at the time to and the next door neighbors daughter

Frequency, I wrote a long post then lost connection so lost it.
In brief, I assume you have never had any dealings with the family court system because of your glib responses?
I originally listed the many ways my DH has tried to keep contact going over the years, only Tobe thwarted at every turn.
I cba to post it again so over to you Frequency ... If you could not give up on your children, how would you deal with my dh's situation? What would YOU do to get contact?

Because many people are not decent parents.

Pretty sure you'd be able to tell by talking to someone whether they are a manipulative arsehole or not.

If you can tell, they're crap at it. How else do you think Ellie Butler got sent back to her sociopath of a father?

You know those cases where NRP kill the children as a way to punish the RP? Well, those are almost always in high conflict cases where they allege alienation, and the RP alleges abuse. Abuse can be from either side. It's a horrendous issue for any CAFCASS officer to address. And they're only human.

It's very, very hard to know if either side is the victim, or if it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. And the children suffer, whatever you do.

It's all a moot point, though. Mentioning parental conflict in a thread about maintenance is whataboutery. It just is not relevant to the main point, which is that children have a right to parental support. The relationship between the parents, and how nice or otherwise they are, has a grand sum total of fuck all to do with that.

It was relevant in reference to another post. I didn't realise we were allowed to talk about only what you think is relevant.

And basically what you've just said is oh nobody can prove parental alienation so tough shit.

Emotional alienation is a form of emotional abuse imo. Twat that dds father is, so much so he would never get even supervised contact if he tried, I can't empathise, let alone forgive the mindset that would hurt their own child to make themselves feel better by getting revenge on their ex. But emotional abuse is the hardest to spot, let alone prove, whether it's a two parent family, an nrp or rp. And is entirely separate to not paying maintanence.